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Land Conservation Under Fire: How the New Omnibus Bill Impact Conservation Easements

What’s up folks? I’ve been getting a lot of questions on land conservation easements after the omnibus bill seem to break the conservation easements at a two oh and a half x multiple. Is it true? Are there loopholes? We’re gonna be going through both sides of the argument here so that I kind of stay in the middle and kind of say that I just gave you all the information that I tapped from my sources.

Ultimately, you gotta make. Station, but here we go.

Hi, my name is Lane Koka. I run the Who We Do Pipeline Club. If you guys would look on to join and get involved in our deals, go to sy paso castle.com/club. Um, if you haven’t heard what a land conservation easement is, You know, you’ve probably been living under a bus or some rock or something like that, and you’re probably not an a credit investor.

If you’re not an a credit investor, don’t listen to this video. It’s just, uh, not gonna help you out very much. What this is for high income earners that are making over three to $400,000 adjusted gross income every single. So a bunch of higher roller cokes. This is something that the IRS has on their kind of watch list.

Nothing that I’m talking about is going to be construed as tax legal advice, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is kind of the latest and greatest of what’s been happening. What I’ve been hearing from my insiders on this issue that is all kind of stemming from in December of 2022, this omnibus bill kind of came forth and changed a lot of the tax governments and how this stuff was gonna be viewed by the IRS from the 2016 latest.

But so we don’t lose anybody here. What is a land conservation easement? But basically it is sort of like a donation, right? Where donations, if you guys aren’t familiar, you donate something and you get a tax deduction on your taxes. Real simple. But in this case, what people are doing is they’re going into syndicated land conservation easement deals where a piece of land is syn.

And that piece of land is donated to be put on a conservation easement list where there will not be any type of development. Basically, the land goes to the ducks and the wolves, basically. Nobody else can build on it. It is kind of for the sake of the environment, and this is kind of a good thing in the long run if you’re kind of one of those green people.

But the main thing we’re talking about here is the tax side. What people are doing, or what they were doing is they’ve got a million dollar piece. But they’re getting it reevaluated for a higher and better use. Maybe that land can be redeveloped to put solar panel cells or put a big high rise casino on.

Of course, that wouldn’t be very practical, right? So there’s a level of how practical the ski land can be developed. Some cases it could be developed, you know, 20 x 30 x and that was what people were doing at one time. If you’re kind of following me, What they were doing was buying a piece of land, you know, for a million dollars and saying that it’s worth 20 million in their deduction.

Now, sort of along the years, certainly around 2016 to 2020, these kind of ratios came back and kind of got rained back to earth and the five x multiple put in a million dollar property and you get it reevaluated. 5 million. To get the deduction for the people in these deals still can provide a net positive for a lot of.

Take somebody making a million dollars a year, if they’re able to drive their income down to 50% of that to $500,000, they just shelter that $500,000 from that highest tax bracket, and especially if they live, you know, in state taxes too. And that could mean that their AGI goes from a million down to half a million, but more importantly, they save 50 cents on every dollar on that delta.

So that means that they just saved a quarter million dollars in taxes right there for putting in an investment of maybe a hundred thousand dollars. Again, that five x multiple a hundred thousand dollars infusion of. To get a $500,000 deduction in their adjusted gross income, and that equates set 50 cents on the dollar, a $250,000 gain back, so pretty dang good investment, right?

Something that kind of takes overnight in a way less a hundred thousand dollars and get two 50 back, right? That’s more than double your money. Now, what was been happening in years prior to 2023? Is that these ratios were being pulled back to a five x with the omnibus. There is a little bit more of a ruling system around the governments of this multiple, and that multiple now is two and a half x.

Now, using that same example, right, A guy, you know, using one of these syndicated land conservation easements, they’re adjusted gross. Is a million dollars. But instead of that, that five x multiple, now they’re only kept at two and a half X. So they’ve gotta spend, say, a hundred thousand dollars to get $250,000 of AGI differential.

So that means with a hundred thousand dollars, they can lower their just gross income from a million dollars. Down to $750,000. Still a big amount, but is it worth it? That delta of $250,000 may only mean a, you know, tax savings of $125,000 at 50 cents on the dollar there. Remember, they spent a hundred thousand dollars.

In this investment. So that means they’re only gonna get back $125,000 a delta of $25,000 to the positive. With that, it kind of negates the whole purpose of doing this whole thing unless they’re doing it for the benefit of the ducks and the air and the rivers and you know, all the Pocahontas environment type of stuff.

But is it worth it? Right. And this is kind of what the Omnibus Bill has kind of put. Now I’m gonna be going kind of through my notes here of what I’ve been kind of collecting from my sources that wish to remain anonymous, and that’s kind of the world that we live in this stuff, because a lot of this is not to be considered as tax or legal advice.

If you’re somebody who wants to do this type of stuff, well make sure you work with the right people. This is why people join our mastermind group, our inner circle, and join our club, right to learn about things just like this and deals and you know, where do you invest. Again, you guys can join that at simple passive cash flow.com/club.

A lot of this is based on your personal financial situation. This may not be for you, but certainly if you’re making over, you know, a few hundred, 400, $500,000 adjusted girls income. Probably is something you should learn more about. I’m gonna be going into a little bit more of these details from my notes.

So in years prior, you could kind of be in a deal and as long as you’re in the deal for one year, you could kind of make that election, or the syndication could make that election to make this donation. But now with the omnibus, now they’re saying you need to be in it for three years. Now I don’t know where this magical three year comes from, right?

A lot of these bills and government, you know, regulations don’t make any. The closest thing I can subject that where it comes from is maybe they’re trying to emulate long-term passive income, which, you know, my CPA tells me to hold onto an asset more than a couple years to get at better capital gains treatment. But it is what it is. Three years is what it says.

Another nuance is in years prior, you know, when people were going five x 24 x, 15 x under multipliers, there was some wiggle room. Now what they’re saying is if you go any higher than 2.5, you essentially brick your entire deal. You know, in years prior, you would’ve gone up to maybe 2.4, 2.5.

Anything higher than that would’ve just been, eh, yeah. You know, you’re not gonna be able to count that. But now they’re saying if you’re going higher, It’ll get all disallowed and thrown out Again, these are just, you know my notes, right? Not saying that what will happen if you get audited and what will really happen in the enforcement.

These are just kind of ideas that have been thrown around that I just want to kind of put into your guys’ head. For some of you folks who did conservation easements in years prior, maybe in 2022, and you’re probably freaking out, you’re probably like, oh my goodness, my conservation easement is gonna get thrown out because it’s higher than 2.5.

Here’s the deal from what I’m hearing, as long as your deal was first off, voted for, it was filed into the law in that jurisdiction and everything was kind of wrapped up in a bull before the omnibus came. Through in December of 2022. You should be fine in terms of being kind of grandfathered under the old regime.

Now, of course, you know, nobody wants to do this and I don’t really, I don’t condone any of this, right. But there’s a probably gonna be a lot of people out there who are doing this stuff, who made back date documents, forge documents to get it in before the conception of the omnibus bill in December, 2022.

I’m not, I’m not condoning any of that again, right? That’s not good. But I, again, I think I’m saying that because we talk a lot about entities, legal protection. When people wanna sue you for frivolous reasons, that’s the kind of garbage they’re going to do and pull on you. And this is why having, you know, if you’re a higher net worth individual, just having some LLCs probably isn’t gonna help you too much in terms of protection.

And this is why, you know, the wealthy people go through great extremes to totally eliminate liability or more protect themselves to a certain higher. Because there are a lot of unscrupulous people who do stuff like this, and it’s very easy kind of to fudge a date here and there. All somebody has to do is the CPA Turner who’s gonna be doing stuff like this.

Hey, gimme an extra X amount of dollars, it’s a consulting fee, and I’ll make this work for you. Scribble some dates back here that are completely illegal. I hear about it now. The omnibus bill is pretty rock solid in terms of saying, Hey, 2.5 x multiple, no more. There are some hopes here. Now the new commissioner is coming in and we don’t know how that person is going to be.

Are they going to audit this stuff? Well, we know that the old commissioner would audit everything from 2016 and beyond, so we know that for a fact. But what to what? Right. So one of the due diligence things when you do look at these types of deals was to go into a deal that had a healthy legal budget.

Why? Because if you had a healthy legal budget, maybe seven figures, to keep a battle going, at some point it may not be worth the effort for the iris to fight you, and it will just lead to a. These things are always settled. It just really never gets to the end, like law and Order where there’s a judge that says this or that, it typically gets settled just like any other litigation.

This one’s no different just with tax court. So if you’re able to fight it and be a pester, the theory is that you can, you may be able to get a better multiple or just ski through the system on escape. That is if they audited you, which if you work off years prior, you probably. But I think this is the biggest thing that people who are still doing this conservation easements are kind of looking towards as they’re kind of saving grace of, well, you know, at least I got the tax savings in the meantime.

And if I grew my money, if I double my money in the last two to three years anyway, or maybe even five or six years, by the time this work its way through the audit system as I would imagine something like this would just taking forever. You know, you’ve gotten that time benefit of money. Now, maybe the counterpoint to that is they, maybe they would backdate the penalties and.

And this and that. But if you’re able to grow your money, maybe you’re able to beat that taxes and, and, and penalties. Just another thought. Now we’ve kind of beat up this conservation easement. At this point, I would probably think at home that, yeah, I’m not gonna do this stuff. Now the other side of the coin is, here we go.

And again, no tax legal information on my part. I’m just telling you what people on the streets are talking about, that I kind of interact. So first off, we kind of mentioned it, right? Let’s just say the evaluation is two and a half or five x is what it used to be. There’s a certain amount that your evaluation can go down to that you still get a net positive benefit to.

That’s up to your personal situation, and I think that’s something that I can kind of help out in helping you determine if it makes sense for you or maybe there’s just some other mechanism, maybe real estate, professional status and passive activity. Losses are just a better way of going than this.

Little bit more risky. We’ve got the Tax Pal fund. I’ll get more into that at the end of this video as a more safer option, in my opinion, to get passive losses that are not recaptured. But you know, this is the counterpoint, right? This is kind of the devil’s advocate approach. One thing that I think people have to realize is why do you have this whole conservation easement thing in the first place?

Well, the purpose of it is to designate land that you cannot develop it for the sake of the environment. And whether you kind of believe. Yes or not, kind of do need it, and the government wants a certain degree of this right now. This is just a tug of war game. The omnibus bill has pushed things very in favor of just killing all these conservation easements.

The good ones, the ones that want to go through are not because of this is kind of killing the deal. The only people who are able to do this are big, big players not to doing it in the syndication space or so they. And these are kind of the loopholes. They’re kind of being evaluated by a lot of people right now.

If this year kind of passes by and maybe 2023 passes by and there’s not that much land being designated conservation easement, they may look to ease back on some of these regulations. Or what I kind of feel like is they put these types of loopholes in here. So as a means to allow for future land conservation easements, it’s actually to fulfill it Our.

But they kind of have the ability to award it specifically, or for people who have the legal team to fight it through. That loophole that I’m kind of getting at is right now there are regular conservation easements and these simple conservation easements. Regular conservation easements, the rights are kind of given up.

Land is not really donated, and those are more the traditional conservation easements that I think a lot of us are used to. You are able to, in the syndicated deals, you can use the benefits up to 50% of your adjusted gross income. If your adjusted gross income was $1 million a year, you could buy up all these conservation easement.

Maybe only at a two x two and a half X multiple. Nowadays, we don’t know yet, but you can drive it down to 50%. The other method is this fee simple, which may not be under the omnibus jurisdiction, and I’ll explain why later, but what they’re saying is you can possibly still use these fees, simple type of arrangements where the land is completely given up.

It’s not just the rights. Be simple, just donated and given away. The downside to this is instead of a 50% ability to lawyer h ei, you pony unlimited to 30%, which may be good enough. And what I would probably recommend most people to do is see your tax mitigation strategy, not as just a one trick pony with conservation easements, for example, but to use a conjunction of different mitigation.

And this kind of actually forces you to do that because at 30% maximize use of this, what’s happening is say, take that guy who has a million dollars adjusted gross Inca. 30% of it means that he’s only able to go from $1 million to $700,000 ei. And if you’ve seen our tax videos in the past, I always try to get people around $340,000 married, filed jointly, or maybe even around $200,000.

So obviously if this guy’s at $700,000 right now, there’s a lot of room of improvement here. Maybe they implement real estate professional status, or they have a lot of passive income and they use the passive losses, which again we’ll talk about here at the end of the video. But they use those passive losses that drop them from 700 back to 300 or 400 wherever they really want to follow that particular year using conservation easements.

But again, this be simple conserv. When I started to first hear this, I was like, I thought the omnibus bill was calling out all conservation, syndicated conservation easements as a whole, and to me this was a head scratcher. I personally don’t do the conservation easements, but I know a lot of my clients use them every single year.

Which is why it’s important to get around other people actually doing this type of stuff, because if you google this stuff on your own, you’re gonna find all the content marketers who are posing as CPAs that wanna put out a puff piece like this to make them seem really conservative. So most people will go to them, but there are a lot of aggressive folks out there that are investing in the right things that the IRS wants, that wants to mitigate their taxes as much as legally possible, who are looking for the.

So where’s this like little crevice that lawyers can kind of get in here and break up the whole omnibus thing? Well, it seems kind of strange and stupid. I kind of think it’s a little stupid, but the way it was written into omnibus, it doesn’t specifically call out the whole nuance between free, simple, and regular easements.

So again, where does this lead into? Well, it leads into, well, when the conservation easement deal is being audit. It will eventually go into this audit, and this is where we pay lawyers to do this stuff. And if anybody has done silly things for some legal reason, this is the reason why we have lawyers, and thus conservation easements may not be dead.

But in my opinion, at the very least, you can’t use that 50%. You had to go with the fee simple and do the 30% is what I’m. And maybe that two and a half multiple lies. Again, I don’t know, I just personally think it’s just better to use passive activity losses to lawyer your passive income completely and to dwindle your ordinary income amount over time.

To do this, you’re gonna need to get rid of your traditional investments and get into alternative investments that give you passive activity losses, and to do this a very old fashioned and clean way without having to use conservation. To me, conservation events are kind of like a wonder drug, whereas using passive activity losses offset passive income to cancel that out, or maybe to use a conjunction into real estate professional status to use your passive losses to lawyer AGI at that point.

That’s very basic stuff, and that’s kind of like good diet and exercise in a way, instead of just using the magic wonder. But however you guys wanna do it, and I think this is really gets into your own personal situation and your own risk tolerance you have with this type of stuff. I’ve been very clear, I’m not getting tax or legal advice, but I think this is where you need to have a group of community around you.

And that’s why we always, you know, have these events where people get to see each other face to face and talk about things like this instead of just Googling stuff amongst. Now I’ve mentioned, you know, how do you get these passive activity loss, which I feel is like, is a lot better way of mitigating tax.

Good old fashioned passive activity, losses, depreciation to knock out your passive income. If you’re somebody who has moved off of your W2 job, your business, your ordinary income, now all your income is passive income and therefore you could drive your income down to none. That’s kind of like how I live personally.

I pretty much just have passive income these days, and I’m able to use the massive amount of losses I get from real estate to knock it out, and therefore my adjusted gross income is pretty much nothing. No. Completely legal. So what we have is our taxal fund where what we’re offering investors in addition to a little bit of returns, is you are going to be putting in a dollar to get $1 of passive activity losses.

Now normally with passive activity losses, when the deal is exited or the asset is sold, you have to recapture those losses, which can be a bit of a drag. But we’ve talked about other strategies to mitigate it in other videos. But in this actual opportunity that we have, the passive activity losses will not be recaptured.

In fact, if the asset is ever sold me as the general partner will be, recapturing it on my side, shielding that recapture from you. So this is kind of a game changer. So way you use this is maybe your, you’ve got half a million dollars of passive income and you wanna bring that down to 300. So you need a couple hundred thousand dollars of passive activity losses.

You go look at your 85, 82 form, you, you don’t have it there. Or maybe you only have a hundred thousand. Well, you may need to buy some, and the tax power fund that we have will provide that. We have a lot more information for folks that are in our investor club, if you wanna check that out. Simple paso castle.com/club.

But I think it actually makes this kind of arrangement a lot. More desirable, especially when you combine the fact that bonus depreciation is not a hundred percent anymore as it was in 2022. In 2023, it’s down to 80% and in 2024, it’ll go down another 20% down to 60% until it con completely phases it out, and there’s nothing out there that gives you passive losses that you do not have to recapture.

This is the only thing I’ve heard. So it’s a tool and it may be a tool for your situation. What I would say is join the investor club, so paso casual.com/club. Check out the webinar we have, it’s about an hour and a half. It’s a little technical, but if you are into saving taxes, and you certainly should, if you make over half a million dollars a year, taxes is probably your number one expense.

And with conservation easements through this omnibus bill getting tougher and tougher. Sure. There may be some hope. As I alluded to in this video, it just seems like it’s getting harder and harder. Right? Just like infinite banking or credit investor banking. You know, the terms are just kind of getting worse over, slowly over the time horizon.

But the big thing is the best time they get it was yesterday before they make it even worse. Right? Same thing. But anyway, let’s end of the video folks. Thanks for listening. If you guys have any other questions or specific questions about this, put into the common box below, we’re gonna be releasing other videos that you guys ask us to do. Our email is team@schoolpassivecashflow.com. Share this with a friend. Thanks.

How’s Life After Retirement With Dorian Mintzer

Happy new year. If you’re new to our community, we try to educate people on alternative investing strategies for the wealthy. More specifically people that are above a million dollars net worth things are very different the way we do things, but very simple and implementable by the average person.

As I personally found myself, investing in rental properties and then getting to an accredited investor status and beyond, a lot of things that the wealthy do are very common. And we break these things down into three big things, investing in good alternative investments that are backed by real hard assets, such as real estate deals with value add.

Secondly is the tax strategies, in which you get the passive losses. Larger syndication deals. And then the infinite banking strategies, which we’re gonna roll out a new and improved infinite banking product. It’s tinkering with some ideas if some of you guys have had some issues with you needing to set up a plan for 5, 6, 7 years and six of that plan.

We’re gonna be doing a more quick start version of it. So a lot of you guys who have a large lump sum of money, which we’ve found. It’s a majority of investors, right? Cuz they get it from their lazy equity in their heloc, or they have a glut in their qualified retirement plan. Self-directed IRAs qual.

Roth IRAs, et cetera. They have this big lump sum of cash they wanna front load into the internet banking. We’re gonna be starting to roll that out this year. Also, if you wanna learn more about that, go to simple pass the cash flow.com/bank of course, and then sign up for the e-course, which takes most people two to three hours to go through that The other thing I wanna talk about is the, if you guys have heard, like the monthly updates have gone away, we’re not going to be doing those anymore. Instead I’m gonna be breaking down in much shorter weekly episodes of, news that I’m of stumbling upon in some commentary there. As we I’m always looking to change things just like how we always change up the format of the events.

And then the fam how the family office group. Gets together and collaborates. I’m big on being progressive and taking impact taking the the advice from you guys out there, getting feedback. If you guys have any feedback on the show, more than willing to listen. Go to simplepassivecashflow.com/.Question put it in there. If you have any questions or any feedback there, or just email team simple passive cash flow.com and on today’s show, a lot of this is surrounding like, where do you go after retirement? And I, when I’m starting to realize is you need to find that thing that you wanna do for the rest of your life if you have to do it right.

I’ll say it again. Think of what. Would do if you had to do it for the rest of your life. I think traditionally there’s this mindset of, you working to, you’re 65, which is really 75 today cuz nobody can afford it. And then you shut off the engines and you just live off their remains. People are living longer and I think it, what’s more important is to kinda, as Chris Miles says, live your divine genius.

Or as I say, live your EK guy or find more enjoyment in today than to play. This self gratification or delay gratification game. Which I think a lot of us that listen, at least I can speak for myself. I’ve always been, growing up on this idea of , the marshmallow rule where or the marshmallow theory where you know, you, if you don’t take your money yet, have it grow, it’ll be much more later.

But until then you’re starving and you’re living in hustle mentality, hustle zone, and you’re living at a scarcity, not abundance. So it’s a way to eat your cake and have your cake and eat it too. And, being able to have, that passive lifestyle today.

While spending it, enjoying it, but also know you’d be good for the future. A lot of that has to do with, investing in the right deals getting off the Wall Street path taxes legal in front of banking. But I, what I’ve realized, cuz a lot of people in our mastermind group are coming to events, multimillion dollar net worth, if you have only $2 million of net worth and you put it on to the pep fund.

quarter million dollars right there, 25, 20 grand. A passive income every single month, and it just keeps growing and growing. It’s more than inflation at that point. What’s the problem? It’s this mindset of not thinking that you don’t have enough, but to, it’s different when you combo that with, yeah, we did the spreadsheet.

We know what’s gonna happen with your net worth and your passive income. But a lot of this is surrounding like what’s going on with your headspace and getting to this space of abundance, and that’s, we’re talking about today’s podcast. If you guys have any other topics that you guys let me cover, let me know team@simplepassivecashflow.com But enjoy the show. Bye.

Hey, simple passive cashflow listeners to date, we are going to be talking to a retirement expert and talk a lot about the things after over the hump. In case you haven’t noticed, I am people always ask, like, how old are you or I’m Ali, by the time you’re listening to this, I’m 37,

but whenever we do breakout room. So then I split people out or breakout rooms in our family office group, or the virtual events that we do on occasion. I will usually do a session where we split people off of the age, even though I personally feel like whatever age it is, it don’t matter. It’s talking to some of the other day and it said they’re few years from retirement, but they’re broke.

I’m like, dude, you can’t retire yet. Your bro. So I always go into the groups that are in the fifties, sixties groups. They always get a little annoyed when they jump in on their conversations, but I’m always the way I see it. I’m at that age financially where I’m over the hump and gain in a way, but I’m always just peering at what’s next.

What I like about is people don’t give me advice. There are my grandpa or dad or something like that. And that’s where I can really actually just be a fly on the wall, listen to those types of conversations. And this is, I think what today’s podcast is going to be. We have a guest story minster who also is a TEDx speaker.

You can check her content out@revolutionizeretirement.com, but she coaches and advises folks who have in that second half of life. So welcome, Darren. Thanks for coming. Thanks for inviting me. I’m delighted to be here. Yeah. So let’s talk about the, your average client, they come in, what is, some of the motivations are just prime us, the folks coming in.

I would say there there are a number of things. Ages and types of people that come in, some are coming in when they’re younger in their forties, but these, and really want to think about what’s next, with the notion that it’s money, but it’s more than money in terms of how you want to live the next, half of your life and others come in.

In their sixties, seventies, eighties, and beyond sometimes having retired or retired from full-time work and wanting to figure out, like something is missing and they’re not quite sure what it is. And some just want a little, a little, a reality check to make sure they’re, they’re getting the most out of life that they can get.

So I would say I see that kind of a whole gambit of. And I say, this is typically after, I dunno how long you would say like about a year or a few years of some kind of, they get out of a job. You get out of that kind of hustle and bustle. You have financial abundance, and it’s a bit of a transition you’re drinking pina coladas going on trips when you can go on trips and enjoying the good life.

But there is that emptiness that you said, right? Yeah I often, or not often, a lot of times I’ll see people that, they really have so enjoyed the honeymoon stage where some people actually don’t want to work full time, but they really do want to keep working in some way and use their skills in some way.

And maybe don’t need to financially and might volunteer. Or am I still like to earn a little extra money and other people just, as you said, it’s. No after the honeymoon, there really can be that feeling of, what else is there something’s missing. And, and I think COVID has made it a little bit difficult too, in terms of travel.

Although I think, it will be picking up again, hopefully, but that’s been a hope and dream for many people. And it’s had to, for some be put on the back burner because of just the safety issue. Yeah. And, I have still do those reinsure onboarding calls for people who join the online group@simplepassivecashflow.com slash club and something that comes up.

Every other call people are like I want to get the financial independence, but I still want to work. And I always call them out on it. And I’m like, yeah, that’s what you say when your net worth is under $5 million and you don’t have enough money to retire.

But, maybe you can speak a little bit to that, right? Like some people, they still want to feel like they contribute to society in their way. Posse eeky guys a concept. Sure, absolutely. There’s no one retiree. And I think there’s a number of different kinds of motivations that people have. Some people actually love what they’re doing and want to keep doing it, but maybe not working as hard as they’ve been working.

They may want to, if they’re in an industry that they can consultant or work part time or think about, their skills and being able to give back in some ways, for many people, it’s the satisfaction, it’s the connection, the engagement, the purpose, and meaning, the sense of community.

And after a certain point, after a certain amount of money, it may not at all be about the money, but that there’s something about that sense of accomplishment and meaningful relationships that sometimes, motivate people to want to keep working. So it’s not such an unusual kind of thing.

I think what I find is that people, when they get to be 40 and older, that our notions of successes sometimes changed a little or it’s beginning to shift. And I’m not sure we’re ever free from the accolades of people outside, but I think sometimes it begins to shift and it’s more from inside. So if you feel like you’ve really got some good skills and there’s still some fire in your belly to maybe ways you do want to give back, and it’s not such a crazy idea at all, to think about doing Encore work or working in a different way, or even volunteering.

And being more involved in both volunteering, but also philanthropy. Can you talk a little bit about like the differences of, not necessarily earlier 40 years old or posts, but what are some of like the differences of in mindset that is it before 40 or just generalizing of course, folks out there.

It’s is, are you concerned about how much dollars do you have in the bank or how people perceive you in terms of job title? Is that kind of what you’re talking about? I think if we think about it, there are these different phases of life. And people think about them in different ways, but there’s that phase when we really are programmed to be productive, where we do need to earn money to either support ourselves supportive family.

There’s a lot of motivation on why we want to succeed. And often during those years, thirties, forties, fifties, we, it, even if you run your own business and own company, we still tend to be subject to how people think about us. And how we come across to the world. And I do think it does begin to shift as we get older.

As I said, I don’t think it’s ever totally gone. But I think that as we get older, there really is more of a sense of, I know I did a good job and, I feel that even if, maybe I’m not. The kind of accolades that I would wish that I could get. And I do think that begins to shift. I want to do, you mentioned the word transition and I wanted to, if it’s okay with you pick up on that, because I think transition is such an important word and idea for your listeners to think of.

If you think about it, life is just a series of transitions, from going to school, maybe getting married, maybe having a family, getting divorced maybe not being married, but in a relationship retiring. Future plans, if you think about it, all transitions have an end and unknowing and a new beginning and retirement is a transition.

It’s not a destination anymore in the way it used to be. For some, it may still feel that way. But the traditional retirement age of 62 or 65, just doesn’t cut it as much anymore because we’re living so much longer. And many people, get to be 60 to 65 and they say, Ooh, if I’m going to live another 20, 30, 40 years.

Yeah, I want to think about how do I want to live that and be as vital and full and connected and have purpose and meaning and connection as possible. And I think that’s what begins to motivate people at whatever age. And I like the idea that it’s not age per se, but it’s where you are developmentally.

What’s important to you and what’s your goals and dreams and values. Yeah. I Definitely like where we’ve come. I definitely a lot of the gin, I don’t even know what you call these people anymore. C’s are younger than shit. Sees they’re into like Instagram. How many are they comment on care by Instagram at this point?

That’s for older people now, millennials, but they care about like likes or the validation from others. And then I see it from a lot of the younger people just out of college. Now they’re very into what colleges they got into, where they. With the prestige of their company. And then I guess what we’re alluding to is it wears off after some point.

What do you think is the reason why you start to get over that type of stuff or. I think there are a lot of reasons, but I think that there often ends up being a bit of a shift from just doing, to wanting to reflect more and focus a little more on our inner life, our inner soul.

And I do see this happening more and more, and there’s actually a current book that’s come out called from role to shifting from role to soul. And I don’t think it’s like, it doesn’t mean not working in order to get in touch with what’s going on inside because I think it can happen simultaneous.

Like I still work, but I’m aware that I’m time reflecting thinking about what’s important to me. And, I would imagine that a lot of your listeners, at whatever age they are and you can be pretty young starting to be that reflecting on what am I proud of? How do I want to be remembered?

What impact do I have in the world? And I think we all want to be remembered in big and small ways. And I think it’s an opportunity to think about how do I want to live these maybe bonus years of 20, 30, 40, more years past that traditional retirement age, that doesn’t have to be all downhill. But I think when we’re younger to your point, we need to earn a certain amount of money.

But then after a certain amount, it becomes almost a moot point that, added money doesn’t necessarily bring happiness, but how you’re living your life, how you’re connecting with people, how you’re honoring your values. That often is part of what then ends up becoming important internally to you.

And that can happen at any age. But I think as we get older, And there’s less time ahead, just a year wise then, we know when we’re in our twenties or thirties or forties, I think the shift begins to happen where there is this sense of is this all there is who am I? Who do I want to be?

There’s still a life ahead, to really think about, what impact you might want to have. We might still want to accomplish or say, or do. Want to ask you how do you break this down with people when you consult with them in a little bit, but I just wanted to reiterate something you just said there, we’re all looking for kind of impact in some way or form.

And that typically impact means helping other peoples and in your own special way. My pragmatic approaches. You need money to do that. You can’t just money amplifies messages and signals and your impact. You got to make some money first. You gotta put your own oxygen mask on first. Therefore you have to invest and do these things to get yourself to financial independence first.

But that out of the way, like once they people come to that point financially and are able to not have to worry about putting food on the table. Where do you take them from there? What’s the typical path with a client? I actually liked the framework of helping people think about life as a puzzle.

It’s actually part of a title of a book I coauthored called it’s called the couples retirement puzzle. And the reason why I like puzzle is. Our life has a lot of different shapes and segments to it a puzzle. It’s not going to fit together perfectly like a jigsaw puzzle, but different things impact others.

And you’re absolutely right. Finances is a big piece of it. But it’s one piece of it, but it affects so many other things. It can affect our health and wellness. It can affect where we live. It can infect affect our leisure time. It can affect our expectations of other people, our sense of community.

So you’re absolutely right. Finances are really big piece. I think finances and health and wellness are the two biggest pieces. That impact choices that we have in terms of our lifestyle, but there are other things that are important too, which is, what’s important to me. What impact do I want to have?

Do I, and do I want to have an impact? There are some people who, don’t necessarily, I’m not saying, there’s a right way for everybody, but in my experience, many people do you know that there really is this sense. We want to be remembered. In bigger, small ways, it may even be just how we interact with our children or grandchildren if we have the, or nieces or nephews, but a sense that we’ll be remembering.

In some way. And sometimes it’s through work, sometimes it’s through charity giving sometimes volunteer work but I do think that it matters to those people. And I think it can begin at any age, but I think as we get older when we’re, there’s a different, a shift in urgency, I think, when you just realize maybe they’re less years ahead, That we begin to think more about that and pick them up now, what am I proud of?

I went to help people think of what are three to five things that you’re most proud of, that you’ve called up and said, whatever age you are, what makes you proud of it? What were you doing that may help you have an idea of things you want to do going forward? What are your expectations of yourself? What are your expectations of other people?

Whether you’re in a relationship or not, who generally have friends, maybe siblings, family members, somebody that’s important in your life that we want to connect with and talk with. And it could be really nice and sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes not so deep conversations with people because that sense of connection, I think really is important for people too much.

Isolation is not good. We’ve seen that with the pandemic. That really connection is important. Something that else came to bind that all kinds of different time to time when I do my journaling what’s of blue board is, what, if you were going to die in three months or 18 months, Something just long enough where you had some time to plan and execute something of value.

What would you do? Because I think too often we go through life is there’s infinite time. But when you get focused to narrow in, on a narrow timeframe, you get very focused and the noise goes away, all the extra things that don’t matter. Go away. This is another idea for folks up there too, to do that, that’s a terrific, I just really want to support that.

That is such a good question to ask oneself. If you were told by a doctor that you had five years to live, how would you want to live it? What would you want to do? What would you want to say? And then another question that I like is what if you went to the doctor. And you learn, you only had 24 or 48 hours to live.

What would you regret? Not having said or done, because I think that also can mean that you don’t want to wait until then. So that come back to whatever age you are now and think about what’s important to you. What do you want to make sure that you’ve said or done or experienced? So you don’t reach the end with a lot of regrets.

Yeah, that’s a lot better than Brad Pitt showing up as Tyler Dorgan and putting a gun to your head till I got to do something with your life. It can be related to that. Hey, whatever works for you guys out here, you gotta, pay for what you guys get, gang plate phase. But I think this is where you got to get around other people on the same trajectory, because most people don’t really think a lot like this.

Most people are still trying to get to. Level one, retirement, which is sending the bare necessities enough money. But I think this is why we preach a lot of times to build your network with the right people. Because these are the richer conversation, it doesn’t matter how much you’re going to invest in nature.

It doesn’t matter how much you’re going to make an infinite bank. It doesn’t matter how much you’re going to do the right taxes or legal at best practices. But these are the, like the richer conversations that come from the right people, which you’ve cultivated over the years. Or you can find a consultant, right?

That’s I think that’s the way to do things, pay to play for a lot of those types of stuff. To recognize that money is a really big part of it, big part of the puzzle, but it really isn’t everything so that, it is important to think about what other things are important to you.

And you’re absolutely right though that, if you’ve got the financial wherewithal, you’re ahead of the game. A lot of people don’t have that. And so that really is important, but as I’ve seen a lot in my work. No money in and of itself. Doesn’t bring happiness. If you don’t have a network of social support or, people that.

No, that are important to you. I think that, too much, as I said, isolation, can lead to there’s can be some dark sides and some, rabbit holes, you get into retirement too, but there’s no question that, reaching a point, whatever age that you’re financially set, then that’s great.

And and that’s important to think about now. Just as you were saying at the beginning, how do I really want to live the rest of my life? What’s important to me. What if I always wanted to do and never had time for, we talked a little bit about this is the carrot and of the carrot and the stick, which is what do you want to accomplish?

Like you just mentioned, but we also wanted to highlight the regrets. So what were some of the regrets, show me your clients that you’ve gleaned over the years is the most common ones that probably might resonate with the, the average Joe driving around in their car to their, 500th time this year, whatever, and 5,000 more in the future.

No, I’ve heard of lot. Cause I’ve been working 50 plus years now and some of the regrets that I hear is I worked so much. I miss so much of the time of watching my kids. Grow up. And so oftentimes I’ll see people who are older now really devoting a lot more time and energy to both their adult children, but also grandchildren, because that’s often been a regret more for men.

But I think, I hear it more and more from women now, too. Now that women are more in the workforce of just regretting working so much and losing some focus on other things that are important in life. There’s another expression that people say that generally when people on their death bed, they don’t generally say, I wish I had worked more.

No, that sometimes the regrets really are experiences not had or things not say. I think that the not said is a big part of what I hear, where, I can remember being at a number of different conferences and somebody will come up to me and say, that idea, 24 and 48 hours to live.

And what have I not said was more important than what I’ve had I not done. And, a few people said, I realized I don’t have a good relationship with my son and I really want to work on that now. I we’re both alive and well. For summit, it can also be some experience. And I think COVID has made that a little more difficult.

I’m hearing from more and more people who are older saying, really feeling angry that COVID maybe is robbing them of, the last few years healthy time in their life where they’ve still could travel and hoping that they’ll still be able to, and, there are life circumstances like that kind of national collective.

Life quakes Bruce filer is that term, like life quakes. And I really like it that I think the COVID has been a lightweight for many people and it’s disrupting. A lot of opportunities and, for people, some people who are older there may not be the opportunities to still do things.

So you really want to take stock of, what is important to you? What are things you want to learn or do or say, but I think many people it’s the, what they’ve said and wanting to repair relations. Often wanting to, be more in touch with the gratitude for good things, rather than constantly complaining about, what didn’t happen and forgiving oneself, forgiving other people, all of these things I think are important.

And I hear all of these things from people, not wanting to miss the opportunity of letting people know how much they love them or how much they meant to them. So I think, whatever age somebody is. Learning from that. Cause those were the kinds of regrets that I hear a lot from people missed opportunities and sometimes it’s too late if people have already died.

So when, and I liked the notion, that. People die, but relationships live on inside, but the more that you can work things out with people when they’re alive. It’s great, but it’s not too late. Even after people have died. You mentioned doing some journaling. I think journaling is great.

And sometimes even writing the letter to somebody who was important to you, it could be parent teacher. Who isn’t here anymore to really thank them and talk about how they impacted, what, in what ways did they instill, maybe certain values or certain way of working taking that time and thinking about it and sharing it with people, if they’re still around or writing letters, if they’re not any differences between the older than 60 crowd and younger than 50 crowd.

Take a lot of similarities maybe or interesting question. There are some similarities, but I think it hits with more urgency when somebody. But if know, part of it has to do with what the different life experiences have been that we’ve had, there can be younger people that have, just by life circumstances had a lot of trauma in their life or w lost a lot of loved people and, and have been facing.

Issues about life and death at earlier ages. And I think oftentimes when that’s the case, they may feel the urgency in the same way that somebody older has it. But I do think there’s just something, I remember when I was 17, 18, 19, I there’s a tendency to feel invulnerable. We have forever, but when you get to be 60, 70, 80, you don’t have.

And, feel a gratefulness that you’re so alive. And now even with chronic illnesses, terminal illnesses, a positive mindset can really help you. So it’s not just age, but I think there is an urgency that’s a little bit more intense. The older somebody gets of just knowing that, realistically they’ll probably be less years ahead, although something can happen at any point.

But I think, when kids, I think what I see as a shift is that notion of kind of empty nest. If you happen to have children and a lot of your energy has been raising them, then many times when the kids are launched are beginning to be launched, that sometimes can be an age when people begin to start thinking, okay, what about me now?

No. What did I have to put on the back burner that I never had time for? What do I still want to do? Or is it, will there still be time? And, I think that’s soul searching, often if it hasn’t started already may start, then we will have to ask my wife that she always says, I always think about myself for.

But any people do, it’s some people, are good about thinking about themselves. And then the question is, are they able to think about other people too? And many people feel, particularly I think in the last couple of decades, so much energy is on, child-focused.

And, some people feel like they, they lose themselves. But not everybody has children and how we age what’s important to us, what kind of community we develop, it’s, there’s no right way. Any parting thoughts before we wrap up here? When I how can people get ahold of you the best.

My website is revolutionized retirement.com and. People can reach me through that. Where my emails dorian@dorianminster.com. And I, I do have this fourth on the fourth, Tuesday of each month, except December it at noon Eastern time, I have a free webinar, open to professionals in the public, and people can learn about it there.

And you have to sign up each time, week before. And even if you can’t be there live, you get a recording link after the call. But I w I would hope that your listeners will just think about it. You’ve got this really one really precious, important life, and to really think about how do you want to live in.

What do you want to do? And if you’re in a position, as it sounds like so many of your clients are that you’re financially in great shape, it’s wonderful. So now you can really focus on some of these other parts of yourself and think about, how do you want to develop, maybe other parts or how do you want to be remembered and what did you not have time for that you still would like to learn?

All right. Yeah. Thanks for joining us, Darren and folks, if you guys haven’t gotten on the bandwagon and got it out of the retail marketable security stuff out there, that supposedly is only gonna work to have you work for 40, 50, more years, go to simple passive cashflow.com/start, check out all the free educational material we have on there.

If not you can go work at Walmart. It’s a Walmart. We were like, everybody else does and finds a job that they trick themselves into liking because they have to work. Money’s not everything, but it sure makes life a lot easier. Thanks for joining us. See you guys next time. Right?