Pursuing Purpose Through Masterminds and Nonprofits w/ Tim Rhode

https://youtu.be/pH70LEehEQw

Hey, simplepassivecashflow listeners. Just want to wish everybody a Merry Christmas. I don’t know if you celebrate Christmas, but Hey, we got the day off, right? That’s all that really matters. Want to alert you guys that I dropped the new syndication. E-course. Now this is not going to teach you how to be.

No syndicator is going to teach you how to be , the best damn LP. Investor that you can be through a self-guided e-course. So I’ve been working a real long time on this. It’s got, eight modules taking you through every piece of the syndication due diligence process from just understanding what’s the syndication then also, where do you look for?

Like, how do you vet the people? How do you vet the numbers? I have a big section in there on what’s all the little dirty tricks That the syndicators pull to make a deal look better than it really is. And then once you get up to speed on syndications, I have a bonus series in there at least six hours where I’ve got in my mastermind students and some other volunteers together.

To ask me specific questions in an interview format where we really get into the nitty gritty and all of these nuances of great conversations, great insights that you’re not going to get anywhere else. If you don’t like it. we’ve got like a money back guarantee. But I’m pretty confident in this thing that you’re not gonna find anything better than this. So check this out by going to our freeze in a vacation guide@simplepassacastle.com slash syndication. And there you’ll find the link to the e-course, which has way more information than that free guide.

So I would say, yeah, check out the free guide And go from there.

Hey, simplepassivecashflow listeners today. We are going to be talking a little bit about  five Oh one C nonprofit  with Tim road   who’s built up his massive nonprofit and has definitely created his vision and serving that purpose. But if you haven’t yet, please join our mastermind group.

 

Check that out@simplepassivecashflow.com/journey and One two walk around Tim road. How’s it going to. Hey lane. Thanks for having me on look forward to hopefully helping you, where guests get what I call the gift of giving back, on our climbing the first mountain to success. A lot of times we forget about.

 

Throwing down the rope and helping lift others to come with us. And I want to put this bug in your ear of how much society needs that today and how you can be a hero in your community and help lift others while making millions for yourself. Hopefully. Yeah. And for those of you guys, we’re coming out of the election season.

 

 , you’re getting frustrated like me.  They see a lot of problems out there.  This is the way to go fix it yourself. Look at the Melinda Gates and bill Gates foundation, they went and did it themselves. And that doesn’t mean that, you can create your own little nonprofit, do it yourself also.

 

And great way to empower yourself after you’ve created your wealth. Tim maybe gets a little bit background. You started in real estate. Tell us how you found this. You got your head above water. Sure.  I’d like to say I’ve gone from one of the more selfish people you’ll ever meet in your life to one of the more selfless  you’ll ever meet in your life.

 

And this transition happened from 15 I’m now 61. Okay.  Barely graduated high school. I never went to college and I was what you’d call a late bloomer. And luckily I found my niche selling real estate and  I put the key in the lock and it finally fit. And I found my niche and I want to touch on one life fully lived on what we teach there later, because that’s what it’s about is figuring out where do you think.

 

Fifth and how can you thrive? And that’s the charity I created down the road. So here I am a lost soul at 25, with two small kids, barely getting by as a person, part time, grocery clerk, I get my real estate license. I sell three houses the first weekend. And I knew it was on, I knew I had found my niche.

 

So consequently. Doing what I love to do worked really well. And so I got better and better at listing and selling homes. And what I did differently that most don’t do is I still lived like a grocery clerk as my income went from 60 to 150 to 300 to 500. My expenses went from 30 to 35 to 40. That 50 to 60.

 

And so if you look at what’s coming in, what’s going out, what’s left to invest that number kept growing. And I was very aggressive by and single family duplex land in the path of growth, different,  just singles and doubles. To where I looked up at around 40 years old. And this was in 2007 in California and I was ready to retire and I sold  most of my properties right into the California craze and basically retired around 40 years old.

 

And since then I’ve been doing what I call getting the goods in the woods skiing, hiking, biking, all the NS that are so fun. And I helped start our for-profit company called GoBundance, which is really Blossomed, hugely and I at a nonprofit called one life fully lid. So I could throw down the rope and help those, emerging from hardship, those that never learn this stuff that most of us do how to find their best life also.

 

And I found that really rewarding. So a lot of folks listening are still working the day job. They have high salaries, but now there’s this concept. We hear a lot about putting your oxygen mask out before helping out others. , how did you in your thirties and forties, how did you personify that whole.

 

Thought I want to challenge that thought. Why do you have to wait?   So here I am like at 25, I’m a part-time last grocery clerk. And at 28, I started to have some success. I was probably making in real estate. I was probably making a couple hundred grand a year and I just. But stuck my toe in the water.

 

I went and spoke at a junior high to 13 year olds. And you talk about a tough crowd. And they were like, Hey, does he have a bugger? They were just rude. And it was a really not a fun experience, but it felt good to give back. And I also volunteered at my local boys and girls club and got on their board of directors and help them raise money.

 

While I was making my way. So I don’t think you need to wait till your ships come in or you’re on top of that first mountain and quote successful. Why not do some great things to help humanity along the way? So when you were making lessons 400, 500,000 a year, were you giving your time or was it more money?

 

Back then, because some people think when you’re in that early stage of your entrepreneurship journey are still building your net worth up, that you need to put that money into real estate agents, that brokerage businesses, a money intensive business too. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I wasn’t that generous financially.

 

Until after I was financially free, I gave more of my time and some of my money to the boys and girls club, probably a couple of grand a year. Whereas now I literally give, 50,000 to 75,000 of my own cash, as well as put in,  thousands of hours a year on my charity.

 

 Yeah. And I think  that’s the hard thing, right? I call it the sandwich generation is, the folks between the age 30 to 50, when you’re supposed to be building that wealth, the financial wealth,  there’s a huge demand on your time, so you pulled in two different edges.

 

Absolutely. Especially people with busy families and I’m talking to the moms, those are the ones,  doing the business or working and running a family. Boy are you squeezed for time? And this is something you can do. Just the volunteer and take your kids with you perhaps and get them understanding how important it is for us to all give back as we go.

 

But I understand those challenges between 30 and 50 of your just you’re on the hamster wheel, trying to make sure you make it up that first mountain yourself. And I say good for you for working harder than most trying to do. Everything you can do to make sure you make it up that first mountain. And believe me, I remember that timeframe and it was, I didn’t know, this was all going to work out the way it did until I looked up at 40 and said, Holy crimeny, I could retire.

 

And did what most don’t. I did retire. I did quit listing and selling and just put all my efforts into the things I spoke of getting the goods in the woods, taking care of my health, being close to my family and give them back through our charity. And when you started to come over that apex and you went to more of a retirement lifestyle.

 

, , you just start your nonprofit at that point, or  were you still searching for what really resonated with you? No, that’s a great question lane.  I tapped out around 2007, 2008, and it was you said a lot of people are upset of how the election went.

 

Around that time. I wasn’t too happy with the way the election went and I was upset and I was upset what humanity, it felt like it was going in the wrong direction. And so it took a couple years to figure out how can I make a difference? And it also took my mastermind partners. Calling me out. Cause I was bitching about how pissed off I was, how things were going.

 

They said, why don’t you do something about why don’t you quit wine? And we’re sick of hearing you whine about it. And I was out getting the goods in the woods, which you have more time to think when get quiet and meditator, pray. And really get quiet. The answers come to you and it hit me out in the country.

 

Dude, you know how to be successful in life. You have all these friends who are really successful. What have you got all those friends together and had them help you? Teach others, these basic concepts of how to create your best life. And if you don’t mind laying really quickly, I’d love to talk about what one life teaches.

 

Is that okay? Yeah, sure. Sure. So I talked about putting my key in the lock and it fit. That’s what we want for everybody. Where will I fit in and thrive? So we created this thing called the fulfillment triangle. And if you look at a triangle you look at where do my passions meet my talents, where there’s opportunity, where can I figure out what to do, where I’m good at it.

 

I love to do it , and I can make a lot of money doing it. That for me, was selling real estate. So that’s the first concept is where will I fit in and thrive? And then there’s the second  concept. And that’s our one live roadmap, which is available on Amazon. And that’s figuring out vision, where am I going with all this?

 

Finances, how will I fund it relationships? Who’s my posse. Who’s my mentors and wellness. How can I be healthy in my mind, body and spirit to pull off this amazing life I’ve been blessed to live. So that’s our one life fully lived teachings, and we want everybody to be empowered, to find their best life.

 

And can you see how. I’m alive when I’m speaking about that I am so passionate about helping everybody find their best life. And I challenge you to find something you’re so passionate about. Maybe it’s climate change, maybe it’s, something maybe it’s battered women or becoming clean and sober, whatever it is, put your heart and soul into it and find a way to to lift others.

 

It feels great. Or another question I’ll ask is what upsets you in the world? Or what gets you really fired up? For me, it’s  people there’s so much bad financial advice out there, right? Like by a big young family buying a big house to live in they give up their cashflow, they can’t buy rentals or all this, investing in retail investments, like the 401k, Bad financial advice in my opinion.

 

And it just robs a lot of people of retirement, but looking back, what was the thing that you’re bitching about? And maybe it seems like I’d love to tell you I’ve changed the whole thing or one life has, but it seems like it’s harder today for the average person just getting out in the world to find their best life.

 

And it seems like they’re being told you can’t do it. Your screwed. There’s nothing you can do and be pissed at them,  instead of them being them Howard, to go inside and find the tools for their best life. So I think that would be just like you said, wrong information with. Financing. I would say it’s wrong information as to how to find your best life.

 

And one of them is the one size fits all. All you need to go to college here, sign here. Don’t worry about the debt. Just sign. Everything will work out fine. And no one’s telling them about trades. The country is screaming for plumbers and electricians and welders. You can make a hundred grand out the gate with no debt.

 

 So  we’re really into empowering people to find their best life and go after it with that. Is there a such an age range that you dial in on or is it a wide range, right? Yeah, we most concentrate on those, just getting out in the world either in the, let’s say 10th grade and we have the one life.

 

One life is the number one, one life. Roadmap on Amazon for students, those still in school. And then we have the one life roadmap for adults. And mainly it’s for those, just got out of school up until gosh, some of them are 40 and having to  reboot, if you will. So it’s mainly for those just getting out of school and those kind of struggling with what they’re going to do.

 

I sure wish I had this at 17 years old. My life would have been way different. I would have gotten it together earlier. If I  only had a roadmap to follow.  Now, one of the nice things about having a nonprofit is, some of the tax advantages, if you can give us some insights on, when you initially started  your foundation,  how did you use that five Oh one C3 and maybe just,  a lot of people, I don’t know too much about it, but I know that there’s some benefits in there.

 

Sure. There’s a lot of benefits. If you want I’m kinda weird. I don’t take any salary from one life. So I don’t benefit financially at all. I’ve put hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money and hit up all my GoBundance friends. David Osborne, Pat. Hi Ben, Mike McCarthy. And our tribe has literally given millions to go by minutes to help others.

 

There are tax advantages.  To, there is no tax on the nonprofit, but all of our funds go into, serving the community and helping lift the others. It gives you like that basket to go and pull other people who haven’t don’t have the time. But maybe have the money.

 

Is that right? Yeah. And everybody’s different. Some have time and no money, some money and no time. And everybody’s looking for a way to serve. And one thing that one life’s done really is made it. We call it easy to serve in your neighborhood by teaching our teachings to those you want to live.

 

And because of that,  there’s a group of clean and sober people. One guy was a heroin addict for seven years. Got clean. Came to our teachings in the last year, he’s bought his own home and two rental properties, including a fourplex. And he said he learned more from our community in six months than he had in seven years.

 

 One thing I say a lot of times is the relationships is the currency of the wealthy  I get it when you’re starting out. And this is the way I was in my twenties. When I was really frugal still am, but I wouldn’t spend money on anything. And  I’ve heard the wisdom where, money augments, what you are.

 

Inside,  it’s a multiplier. So if you’re cheap and  you’re wanting things all by yourself. Even when you have money, you’ll be that way. But for me, when I got more money, it kinda opened my eyes to seeing how. Other people were doing it  better models.  We have our free Facebook group, the who we that you guys are welcome to join you guys listing.

 

But if you notice in that free group, there’ll be some folks who just dive in, dive out, ask for some free advice, peace  in and out. And I’ve mentioned on the show that I’m in, I’ve been in several masterminds. Some of them are over $25,000 a year.  And I’ll just say it’s a different species of people in those groups that fly around 25 grand.

 

And, not that they have  25 grand to burn on something like that, but  it’s their opinion on like money flowing. I don’t know if you can talk about the contrast because a lot of people listening, they’ve never been in a mastermind before. It’s just that W2 working lifestyle where it’s just, it’s competitive.

 

There’s , not much  collaboration. There’s none of this pay it forward type of attitude amongst the cubicle dwellers.  Maybe you can talk a little bit about that, Tim. Sure.  That’s touching more on the tribe. I also help create called GoBundance and GoBundance is helping wealthy, generous people who choose to lead Epic lives.

 

I don’t know when this podcast is gonna come out. But as of now, it costs 7,000 to be in our tribe is going up January 1st to 10,000 and we feel about some bargain and in our tribe or many  W2, people who want to be 10 99 people, we actually have a micro tribe within our tribe of people. Who are current W2 and are working on their investing to take over to where they can just go off into that world.

 

And we’ve had some amazing people speak at our events and beyond something within the tribe. That we call seven to eight and seven to eight is how do you go from seven figures for a million dollars to eight figures worth $10 million. And there’s a gentleman who was on there just recently.

 

That was a W2 person three years ago, I believe. And he’s now, or some crazy number. 28 million or something like that because he’s been flipping triple net lease properties for the last three years and making millions doing that. And when you surround yourself with people who are doing the things that you want to do, but at a much higher level, you seem to come up to that level.

 

And that’s what we’ve noticed within GoBundance. And that’s. From my standpoint is one of the founders of go Bennetts and one with a big heart to lift others. Here, we’ve created this one life community. And in there we have something called three to five, but take off on the seven to eight. How do you make your first hundred bucks?

 

And how do you turn that into 10,000 and become entrepreneurial in nature? 

 

Hey guys looks like a Tim’s internet went out, but just to cap things off, we’re not telling you to go and join GoBundance, which I think is a pretty moderately price mastermind I’m in another mastermind called collective genius that one’s 25,000 a year. But  I’ve been in a lot of masterminds and it really changed my life.

 

I think if you’re listening right now, you’ve never been in one. Yeah, don’t go join in a $10,000 one in a year, right off the bat, but maybe just start off with a small one of even your, just your friends and family,  get a few people together. Get some drinks, go out for dinner and make the discussion a little more focused around what are your goals?

 

Not only money-wise or business-wise, but also career family relationships, et cetera. And I think at that point you start to see the value and the power of these types of masterminds. And when  you’re able to. Become more vulnerable, share what you’re working on, what are the good things?

 

What are the bad things? And one of the very famous very popular formats we’ll use is that the thorn and the Rose, so that the Rose is that you talk about something shiny that you’re working on or a win, but the thorn is designed that you get vulnerable and you share, what’s not going well.

 

And that’s really where the power of these masterminds come because it’s the aid of the other people listening. That they come in and either have a connection for you, or they went through the same circumstance and they can guide you through it. And this is what separates, the average folks from a lot of, like just the people who are killing it out there that they’re able to graduate to higher level masterminds and.

 

It’s really where the connections, the same, your net worth is. Your network is so true because when you go higher and higher, which is why pay so much money to be in the masterminds that I’m in, you get access to people who have the connections and have the social capital to call upon to give it to you.

 

And the thought is you need pay it forward and you help out each other. And. , if you would have found me five, 10 years ago, I would have thought you’re crazy. My wife thinks I’m crazy for spending $25,000 a year, when somebody from one of my masterminds that I am in visits Hawaii,  it’s just night and day different than connecting with some person who’s never been in a mastermind.

 

And I think even she gets it at that point, why it’s so valuable or  how it keeps me. Sane when I have to talk about my 401k or why I don’t have one to my mom around Thanksgiving time or whatnot, or, get into those types of arguments or go and congratulate somebody for buying a house that they live in that just messed up their financial future for a really long time.

 

 Yeah, it keeps me sane. If I have a  peer group that I know is out there that I’m a part of, but yeah  I’m not saying that you guys should be joining one, but try and create your own one. And if you guys are looking for the right peer group of the right people, cause that’s the hard thing, and this is probably one of the reasons why pay so much money.

 

Too. So I just don’t screw around with the wrong people. We have our,  own passive investor accelerator that I’m rebranding as the family office Ohana mastermind. You guys can get more details@simplepassivecashflow.com slash journey, but high paid professionals pretty much all accredited investors at this point.

 

Who are busy professionals still gonna spend most of their time at the day job, but looking to build connections with other pure passive investors and to find more deals, figure out what are the best practice for tax legal, infinite banking. And more importantly, which I don’t think they realize until they get into it for about a year is it’s the relationships, right?

 

As your journey to financial freedom, Moves on. Most people get financially free in five to 10 years and have a good paying job that, what do you do for the other 10, 20, 30 years? What’s the relationships that you forge in your first five years are the relationships that at least I cherish, but yeah, if you guys haven’t connected me I still do those free calls for new Club members for your onboarding call check that out.

 

Simplepassivecashflow.com/club. And we’ll see you guys next time. Bye. 

Announcing the 2021 Virtual Bubble Mastermind – January 16-17

https://youtu.be/0RIq0WOmOfs

We’re talking to Ryan, he’s one of my, accredited investors, been in a bunch of deals with me. he came down to the hui mastermind retreat in Honolulu, Hawaii last year. once you give us a little quick take on, what did you like about it? and then, , I’ll give you the big news man.

. So I loved it last year. I can’t wait to do it this year. So basically these people, I could relate to them a lot more. They were all hard workers. They understood the long-term play. , they had the capital to up, what they wanted to do. everyone in their group had their own little experiences and experiments going on.

So some people that are looking into tiny homes, some people are, looking maybe into, office space. Some people are doing, still single family homes and others are doing syndications. So you get a very broad range of what everyone’s doing. and it rarely intersects with, exactly what I’m doing.

I would be doing like for instance, of what I brought to the table, last year was I had just gotten into an Island syndication. so I wanted to bring details to everyone there and you can share your experiences and people can ask you questions that you may have not have thought of. And, because they have that experience as well.

Yeah. And that’s the thing, folks like our group is I think the only group out there that’s pure passive investor groups, most real estate. I actually, I stopped going to real estate conferences because I started to realize they’re all fake either. They’re trying to sell some gurus $30,000 course, or they’re just a bunch of newbie syndicators trying to get into game.

And, yeah, just. On some podcast or something like that. I noticed that this was an experienced group. a lot of them had already been in, some syndications. some were good, just getting started off, which is fine too. but. got help on both ends, so I could see what others were doing from the get-go.

And I realized that they had capital, they had, the desire to just be passive. and then I saw, obviously people ahead of me who had been doing it longer, who had been in more deals and I could peek around the corner and see what I should be looking out for what’s next. and that’s mainly what I like.

I like to get that notion of what’s next. and how to look ahead. I’ll be doing the same thing. We’ll be filtering investors. And only those who meet the certain criteria of your passive investors will be getting into this year’s event. But I got some bad news, man. What’s that? you’re not going to be able to, come to Hawaii this year because the, all that’s been going on, the whole pandemic thing.

So you just want me to come. no, not you and everybody else are going to need to stay at home and attend this thing virtually, but yeah. How is that going to work? , I’m in a bunch of other masterminds and we are all, things I paid 25 grand I’m in a few of these and I’m taking the best practices from those events.

the reason why I spend that much money to go to those types of events. And I’m sure why you came to Hawaii was so that you could build a relationship with other people. so I seen ways to do this virtually right, using a lot of zoom breakout rooms, but I have a lot of work that I have to do to bring the bright people in, ask people the right questions to curate the right speaking slots as we go around this event.

Okay. It will be virtual this year, Martha Luther King, January, , there’ll be probably a couple of days, no more than six hours a day, in the first half of the day, since I know how things are hard. And this is what’s nice about our in-person meeting, that we won’t be able to do.

As you get to detach and it’s, it’s, it was the time at the bar. It was the time hanging out. That was the cool time. But we’re going to try and mimic this as much as possible. And I would say like most online events search it like death by speakers, A bunch of power points, but the majority of the interaction is going to be, you guys are going to be talking to other members, either on a one-to-one basis like this, or in a small groups.

no more than 12 people in a group. So you’re going to really get to know each other personally. I like that, I think. Yeah. Okay. So you’re going to have breakout rooms with smaller groups of people. I think that’s going to increase the focus as well. I think it’s easy to get caught up in trying to talk to everyone when there is like a larger group at a big table.

I noticed that. So I think it is, that is going to be helpful. Yeah. And that’s the hard thing about even in-person events, right? Like when you. And most of us in our group are introverts. You’re at your ranch for right to, I want to be, yeah. Yeah. you’re an evolvement shiver. So what I noticed being an introvert too, is like, when you find somebody cool to talk with you just spend a lot of time with it.

And you don’t talk to everybody else. So these breakout rooms, common to , facilitate them is going to be cool because. going to give you enough time. You don’t have 10 minutes to interact with somebody, get a good vibe, see if you want to interact with them again in the future.

Take that content, but it’s also going to maximize your time so you can interact with as a lot of people in this that’s okay. That’s true. I think it’s gonna, it’s obviously I think it will be, so how will it be organic? Like I think, in person you It would just be like randomly, you would meet some people and see if you would connect with them.

how is it going to work here? Are there going to be like groups that you choose to be in or they’re going to be focus groups or, yeah. So I’m going to do a little bit of random, matchmaking for sure. But for the most part, I want to give people somewhat of a guideline of what to talk about instead of just pop you guys into a group, because that’s a little awkward, right?

here is the start of the, family office, Ohana virtual mastermind, the bubble of 2021. This is what I’m going to call it. I’ve got, I’m starting to build a list of different topics here. This list will obviously grow as the weeks go by as we get closer to the event. But there’s very common topics that I see coming up, right?

the guy who has a high net worth doesn’t have very much liquidity, but has a lot of money in their home equity or their 401k. Are they taking money out of their 401k slowly. So that unique it out. So their AGI doesn’t come up over $300,000. That was something we talked about this past year that I would say half of the people in the Roman, I’m sure half of the people in the virtual mastermind are having the same issues.

So getting those people together and for those people who don’t have those issues, we’ll put them in another group for general networking, Or infinite banking. I don’t know if you’ve set yours up yet, that was a big thing for a lot of people, hardly setting that up and everybody has a different situation in terms of net worth, how many kids they have, where they are with a career, what is their liquidity look like?

How much money do they net at the end of the year. And what do they want to deployment strategy for investments are going to be, so what I, when people sign up and they apply, one of the biggest thing is I’m going to have a long, pretty long intake form. So that I know where everybody’s net worth their liquidity, what problems they’re having.

So that when we go to the itinerary, I can match people up specifically in the right groups or with the right people. That makes sense to, yeah. That’s going to be really helpful. It’s going to take a lot of planning. Yeah. That’s a lot of work on your end. there’s a common amount of problems and issues people have.

And for example, infinite banking, there’s some experts in the crowd. There’s some people that have never heard of it. The experts I’m going to hook up with, I’m going to have some people at my current mastermind to play elders and bring up some people with that are in the middle.

But I’m going to jump to the breakout room with the complete newbies and teach it from the start. So this will this format will continued throughout the weekend. Okay. Yep. That we might even do a little bit of a Texas hold on. This is a fun game or something like that.

That’d be awesome. I think games are, I was going to say like the activities and the games, especially in person last year, that was, those were great. that really helped start talking to people and just. Feel people out at least, in terms of not just real estate, but just in what type of person they are.

Yeah. it’s going to be a super sleek use of Google documents. And because one thing I can do is you have your, you’re just totally random networking and you have these more specific itinerary based, topic discussions, but in the middle, you have this form of. maybe there’s different breakout rooms that people wanted learn about or talk to other peoples in the peers.

So I can build a Google document with the breakout room, breakout one and rename it to, 401ks breakout to rename it, to taking money out your retirement account, breakout three to, legacy planning. What are you doing in your ear? Revokable trust or trust? What kind of caveats that you’re putting in there?

Who wants to talk about oil and gas or land conservation Eastman’s right. And just a general hallway. Yeah. I think like that, to your previous point, that was important for me is like tax strategies. since, I’m single, I don’t, there’s no kids, so it’s, I don’t get a whole lot of tax help.

those were great strategies for me last year. And I’d really like to see and check in, what have people been doing or out about them? Did anyone go for it? I know that we were still researching oil and gas last year. and then obviously, yeah, the hallway too. I think it might be good to force people to rotate into the hallway every so often to just relax and take a break from learning and, absorbing information at least.

Yeah. and in the new version of zoom right now, you have the ability to navigate yourself through the breakout room. So if you’re not, if something’s not working for you, you can move around wherever you want or leave that option open for people. But, going back to the taxes, right? Like the using real estate professional status, 750 hours with active participation and using all these passive losses, you’re getting via costly innovations and bonus depreciation for this deals.

you understood it, right? you’re there in person, you got the concepts. So what we would probably do for you now is puts you in a group of the experts, That get it. And you guys have passive losses to use. and then, puts you in the people that are on the same level.

So you can guys can talk shop. I might stick with the new people and teach them this concept of this simple passive cashflow gravy train as I’ve trademarked it. Yeah, because that was me. that was me last year, actually. I had no idea about it. I’d never heard of these things. and so I was new and now that I know about it and I’ve actually been looking around, it’d be great to even get more information about people who’ve already done. we’ve got people in the group have gotten short-term rentals to let this, enact their real estate professional status.

They can offset their passive losses . to the ordinary income, you, my friend are single, so it’s going to be hard for you to do it, but we’ll connect you and maybe the other single people too. Even if they’re not single, it’s still, I think it’s still useful. I think, yeah, I can still find relatable people.

And again, the big part for me is probably, I guess the hallway, it might be helpful to have a room to just talk about. Like a general room. there’s no forced topic, but it’s also not like a hallway where you just kinda hang out and talk about like the weather. I don’t know, but really a big part, a big draw for me is, like hearing, like for instance, I think, one person was doing like Airbnb’s, with tiny homes and I was like, that’s awesome.

And he was just wrapping it up. So I’d love to connect with him again and say, Oh, how’d that go? how’s it looking now with COVID, things like that. Yeah, and I’m going to be going out to certain members on specific topics that they’re doing like that. And they can need a breakout room also.

that way they can work their membership or their admission rate, a little bit lower, on a scholarship. So that’s a big thing I’m doing in the family office. Ohana is I’m having people join up for another year or more senior kind of helping the event go. So it’s just not me doing it all.

we’re going to have definitely had helpers here, but like more facilitators too. I’m hoping to that also, we’re trying to build this community here of high net worth the credit investors to on the road to financial freedom. One thing I’d also like this year is, I’m not married, but I, I do have a girlfriend and she wants to get into real estate.

she likes the idea of like mailbox money, passive income. that’s why she has you, man. plenty right there. You just go to work every day.

yeah, maybe it is, but, she, that’s an ordinary, I am, it’s more passive on her part. but yeah, I, I think it’s beneficial here. do you think there would be. for people who do have spouses or significant others, are there going to be rooms for them or can they join?

that’s a great idea and what I know I’m going to do is we’re going to have a topic called reluctant spouse syndrome. where I’m going to give the high level very quick presentation. But again, the format of this thing is to break out into a room to talk story.

Get best practices from the other members. I’m going to pull people in and find those people in the group that have gotten their spouse over the hall. And from that means they maybe talk to them for 2000 hours and they finally get it. Or they found some kind of quick, medium, right?

Like me, I don’t have my spouse co-sign any of my documents because I don’t want to waste my time. Every single time I do this. So I found the happy medium, but it’s different for everybody. And I think in that situation, you’re going to be able to talk to people who have gotten over the situation, or you got in, going through that heart struggle with, your significant other going through it.

we’ll probably allow maybe that might be a good evening time event for. We have the spouses join us and they can interact with the other spouses too. when we did the in-person thing. There were a few couples that came, that brought their, a reluctant spouse along because it just happened to be in a boy and they got shipped people to Hawaii.

when they met a lot of the other investors such as yourself and they got it right, they saw how are very, High level group, did this, and it wasn’t just about making money. It was about from creating a legacy and wealth building audit.

And I think that to have the spouses come in and interact, mix it up with the other spouses and folks like yourself, I think that’s bold. And we’ll definitely try and do stuff like that. Great. Yeah. that’ll help because right now, she only hears me talk and so I think it’s.

It’s refreshing to maybe get her some more exposure in terms of more experienced people. Other people are also getting there. yeah. that’d probably be the good cocktail event for sure. Cool. . Any other questions, man? I think this can be a super fun event. Martin Luther King weekend. So you’ve got that Monday off. Okay. But we’ll probably do it on the Saturday and Sunday and the first half of the day. Awesome. Awesome. And then how are you going to, cause typically like when everyone was in Hawaii, you had, everyone was in the same time zone.

So how are you going to coordinate everyone to be together when they live. in different areas. I’m going to suck it up and try and wake up extra early and I’ll be started at like really early, just so that we can stay on that first half of the day for you, for yourself. I think most of us are in the mountain or Pacific time zone, centrally located.

So that kind of started in the morning and then go to a little bit after lunchtime. But so you have the time to do whatever you need to do for the rest of the day, but I think it is important to Break away from your normal day to day in immerse yourself. That’s the big thing is immersion.

yeah, I think it’s cool this time with that, you don’t have to get on a plane, and go, and what I’ll probably do also is build an itinerary of these different topics that we are talking about. so if something doesn’t pertain to you or you want to cherry pick, you got to go do the laundry or something.

You gotta run Aaron. Right? Mr. Ordinary income, man, you gotta do something. I gotta go look at work stuff. Yeah. You gotta go do work stuff. You can cherry pick when you want to do that. So you don’t miss out something that you really want to learn about. And that’s huge. That is. Yeah. But I think when people realize that quality of people in this group.

if they haven’t already, they’re going to see they’re going to, their eyes are going to really open. Just like how yours when you came down? Yeah, that was huge for me. I think that’s when it became really evident that you’ve put a lot of work in, into creating a group and it’s yeah.

it’s, everyone wants you to win and everyone’s on a team together and everyone’s going to help you out. yeah, it’s a great group. , I’m going to do my best, trying to filter the right people into the group. There’s always a chance. Not many people make it, get past my filters, but I think this is where I’m going to go past you.

You’re going to make it in. You’ve been around a while. I know you personally, I think this is where I rely on like immediate, right? We all need to be watchdogs, potentially a bad actor or a shady character who could come in. Could infiltrate the group. But for the most part, everybody are pure passive investors.

They’re all working to build their own personal family office and it’s more of an abundance mindset. That’s what I found in competitive. Yeah. we’ll, send this out to folks and, hopefully they learned from your good questions. You gave me a good one. That was good.

But any last words, my friend, that’s all I got. Thanks a lot, Lane.

2020 Advanced Tax Saving Tips w/ Toby Mathis [Part 2 of 2]

https://youtu.be/FTj-nJEGi-4

So what if I have an asset, I did a cost segregation. I shipped that all the passive losses and I slide that asset into profit. Do I have to give up those passive losses personally or no? Passive loss is in the year that it’s earned. So the same way you can be a real estate professional in one year and a non real estate professional, just a regular passive investor.

 

Is the same way those losses get locked on your return. There is something called disposition of the asset where you can unlock those losses and they become ordinary losses. So the one thing we would look at is whether that disposition would qualify. If we transferred into a nonprofit, the other reason that deal might be slightly different.

 

Is that while there’s no issues with putting in straight line depreciation property into a nonprofit, as far as the value, when you put in property where you’ve accelerated the depreciation that accelerated depreciation, just the five, seven and 15 year property gets subtracted from the fair market value.

 

So if I bought a property for 500,000 and I wrote off a hundred thousand in year one, And then the property goes up to a million bucks and I transfer it into the nonprofit. I would take the a hundred thousand dollars of accelerated depreciation and I would subtract it from the million. So I’d get a $900,000 deduction.

 

And you’ve mentioned it earlier, but is it essentially you can load assets into the nonprofit just as long as it’s not luxury or what about like class, a office space that don’t work as long as it’s passive? What the nonprofit, the only thing the nonprofit worries about is when I have an asset, whether it’s used for my charitable purpose, for example, I don’t like private foundations where they’re not doing anything.

 

All they do is give money to other nonprofits. We’ve done them, but I much prefer things that are actually doing stuff. And people don’t realize how wide open that is. The example I give people that usually makes them go. Hunt is Ikea and Ikea is a nonprofit. Always has been. The majority owner, the majority control is actually two different charities.

 

And then the kids of Inbar the guides set it up for still control about a third of the board. So they, nobody can get rid of that company in it. He is very, almost no tax. I think it was about 4%. When you operate an ordinary business than a nonprofit, there’s something called UBIT that you have to be worried about unrelated business income tax.

 

And if you’re leveraging the asset, there’s always the possibility of unrelated debt financing, but it’s a misnomer. We don’t really worry about it because there’s still depreciation that we get to use against it. So even if it did make that. You’re probably going to be paying to somebody anyway, like you’re gonna be paying it out as a salary or another expense.

 

Like you’re not more than likely you’re not going to get hit by anything. If you did you pay a little tax on it, but the charity pays it. I must admit, like from an asset protection standpoint, you’re pretty solid there. Nobody could ever take it away. That’s the thing, things, nobody owns it. It’s for the public benefit, you control it.

 

So if you run over a bus load of nuns, you get sued, but lightening suit out of you, they can’t touch it. They could take your, if you start paying yourself out of salary, they can garnish some of those wages. But even that’s 25% of a wage. So it’s not like they could just. Go in there and they can’t touch the asset.

 

And then you control. Usually what people would do under that scenario is they’d pay somebody else, a spouse or a child, and they would take care of that individual, but it just takes the bowl, the bullseye off your forehead. When you have a lot of assets in your walk around with them in your name, I just say you’re attempting fate.

 

There somebody is good inside. They’re going to make their bones on trying to take your stuff. So you, do you like the strategy in new of, or it conjunction with something like a Nevada dynasty trust or like a domestic asset trust or irrevocable trusts? Like even though there’s, everybody’s got their different little, what they think is best, what is your kind of thoughts on how this all works and you use what’s appropriate at the time?

 

And you try not to overthink it. The, uh, Nevada asset protection trust. Yeah. All that is a trust that could last 365 years. Good to cans into another one and keep going on. It just means we’re getting it out of our estate. I don’t own any anymore when, while I’m alive, technically somebody can’t take it from me.

 

So they’re an asset protection tool and in all living trusts end up becoming. If you draft them right. Dynasty trust anyway, you know, unless you want to give all your stuff to your kids right away. So I would say don’t do that. My experience is that you’re better off having instead sit in trust for their benefit during their lifetime, and then going to another generation and you can have them go for a long period of time and you can pick whatever state you want.

 

So Nevada is the number one state for asset protection for us. The reason being is a, they last a long period of time, 365 years. You can make that go longer. But also if you have a creditor of a beneficiary, all creditors are protected. Whether it’s child support, alimony, personal injury, there’s no exceptions and most States have exceptions.

 

So Nevada does not. So we tend to. Put the Situs of our trust in Nevada for that reason. So that’s why you see you here in Nevada asset protection trusts. It’s a fancy way of saying credit shelter trust set up in Nevada. You know, it stuff, but stuff. I think we’ll talk about, bring you to the mastermind and cut Bobby, talk more specifics with the folks there at a future date, but let’s get back to the crystal ball here.

 

So the big thing is the $400,000 threshold. To me, if you’re able to lower your AGI below 400 grand or even less, does it not even matter still on 32% tax bracket, if you’re over 400,000, that 39.6 plus your state. So it’s going to be painful. If you’re below the 400,000, you’re going to get a deduction.

 

That’s going to come back. So that may help some people out. You’re a state and local taxes. You’d be at a write off right now. It’s capped at 10,000. So for some people it might actually be better. We always look at what’s bad about it, but what’s good about it is you make less than 400 grand. You’re going to protect protected class.

 

If you make over a million bucks, you’re completely you’re on the endangered species list. You got to do something, you got survive. Some, there are some ridiculous ways, by the way, to lower your income, you’re doing one late in your real estate professional. That’s not available to everybody. There are things called defined benefit plans that have become more and more powerful over the years with savvy.

 

Advisers where you’re able to put in some cases, upwards of a million dollars a year tax deferred, there’s other vehicles, if you want to get there. And it’s just recognizing that, which category you’re in, if you’re making 200 grand or in below you’re okay. There’s some things you can still do to lower your taxes.

 

Absolutely. There’s still some things you can do to make sure that you’re. Taking advantage of, of opportunities that are available to you to minimize your tax about you’re not, you don’t have the bullseye on your forehead. You’re making 1.5, 1.6 million a year. Got a goals eye on both were asset projection by the government.

 

They want to take a big chunk out of that. And there’s some things we can do to lower that so that you’re not sitting there feeling like you’re just opinion getting hit and all the canvas. So let’s talk about that a little bit. Maybe not for example, like land conservation, easements, not, let’s not really get into whether that’s.

 

It’s going away or right now it’s being fought around a little bit, but what’s what do you think with the new administration new things might be coming? I think that would actually be kind of a greater incentive lane. And I would, the only thing that I would say is the administration right now is looking at it saying that there’s been abuse in the conservation area where they’re overvaluing the conservation easement itself.

 

So it’s something called a listed transaction. If you go over 250% of your investment in an English, it means I give a doll. And I get a deduction of more than $5. They’re going to look at the transaction. That’s all. They’re going to make sure that it’s legitimate because there’s people out there pitching 15 and 20 times.

 

Yeah. Those are the boneheads, right. Taking advantage of it. There’s no way that the value holding up. So I got, we have one right now that we’ve been looking at and these are legitimate. So it’s a developer. Developer is developing a big chunk of Vail, Colorado. So they have an area that they’re willing to conserve.

 

What it does to their other developments is makes that land more valuable. So they’re willing to put restrictions on an area that’s already been approved for the development. All the plans are up like you literally, they built sections of it. And they said, this land is worth $40 million with the developments 42.9 or whatever, but we bought it for 9 million.

 

So we’ll give away all the development rights. And they get a deduction for it. And what is what it is. They say here’s an area that would be perfect if it was never altered. And it’s where two rivers come together. It’s about, that’s going to make everything else. The whole area is going to be better off.

 

So there’s about $30 million of deduction. So if you put in a dollar, let’s say you were one of the 9 million. Then you’re getting a deduction worth. In this particular case, it ends up being more as about $4.70 for every dollar. So you’re going to get to write off, you’re going to have a charitable deduction of $4.70 for every dollar you put in what’s that board at all at 4.7 words, it depends on your tax bracket.

 

If you’re in the 20% tax bracket, it’s going to be 20% of 4.7 is what it’s worth. And it’s what is that like a dollar for whatever it is. See if I can actually do math in my head, a dollar 40 or something around there, a buck it’s you paid a dollar to get just over a dollar. You’re probably not doing that for tax purposes.

 

You’re in the highest tax bracket probably worth it. It’s probably going to be, Hey, you know what? I get a buck 60, a buck, 70. For every dollar I put in, I’m saving a dollar 70. Okay. That’s worth it. Saving an extra 60 cents and that’s conservation stuff. And Biden is showing that he wants more solar and he wants more conservation.

 

So I would say that the opposite is going to hold true on that area, that you could actually see more incentives and there’s a crazier one land. You and I have never spoken of, which is the solar credits that are still floating around out there for business use, for example. What’s going to become a big incentive.

 

And I can almost tell you that this is going to be a reality. So I’m going to get my crystal ball out and say, you’re going to watch this. And then we’re going to listen to this in three or four years and say we were predicting it right now. If I put a solar array on a building and let’s say it costs me a million dollars.

 

I get a tax credit of $260,000, 26%. Even if I finance the whole thing, that’s a credit. I get a credit. That’s not a deduction. That’s a dollar for dollar credit. So if I owe a hundred thousand dollars in taxes and I have a $270,000 tax credit, I don’t pay any tax that year. I use 100,000 of it and I carry it forward into future years.

 

But I also get to depreciate the solar and I depreciate 87% of it. So a million bucks, I’m going to get an $870,000 deduction in year one, plus a $260,000 tax credit. That’s not bad. So there’s, and I think they’re going to increase those incentives. It used to be 30, 30%. And then this year went down next year.

 

It goes to 22%. So that solar panel, you can deduct it all in that first year. You can deduct 87% of it and you get a tax credit for 26% of it. So maybe I actually go around Hawaii and find a contractor. It makes deals with some people, put some solar panels have to sell off the credits to invest in them a year.

 

Is that you’re already there. Yep. That’s exactly what they’re doing. So I have a client. That’s what he does. He, he installed solar, but it gets interesting. What he does. He goes to a utilities, public exempt organizations, five Oh one C3 churches. And he’ll go find a wealthy parishioner and say, Hey, would you, would you put the solar array on?

 

And then do it five-year contract on the energy because there’s going to be energy independent. And so they’ll sell it to the charity and say, Hey, after five years, the array is yours. And so he’s taken the big tax credit. They have a little tiny bit of income on the, on the revenue that’s coming in because they’re technically, they’re selling them the electricity.

 

Although, usually they just give it right to the charity. So that washes itself. There’s a deduction. And then, so you have a little bit of income with a deduction that equals it, but you get that first year. It’s a ridiculous deduction, but where that’s really going to be important later is next year, if the taxes do increase, guess who’s going to be really incentivized to do stuff like that.

 

Yeah, that’d be cool. Like investors bring in the capital, they get the tax incentives and the plan owner gets get some cheaper energy. Yeah, what they do is they lock it in and they’ll say your energy, won’t go up for five years and then you have the right to buy it at some peppercorn price. So you’ve already depreciated it.

 

So you don’t really care and you just don’t want to have a E you would recognize all the income as ordinary income. If you sold it for more, more than your basis. You have a really tiny basis. So that’s what you sell it to them for you like, Hey, 13% basis, whatever that is. So it’s, I just want to not pay anything.

 

Yeah. So during the, during those five years, I have a little bit of energy money coming in and I haven’t payments on the loan on the solar, but it’s basically washing itself. So I, again, I’m getting a huge tax credit. I get a huge deduction. I have very little income that’s coming in off of it. So I’m getting a big first-year benefit and yes, there’s a lot of people starting to do those now.

 

And I think that creative syndicators are going to get into that arena. I think going back to the land conservation easement, I think Democrats are typically more than farm mental sides. So I think that’ll continue to be a little bit, but I, what I’m looking for is then to create some kind of safe Harbor instead of us speculating backroom floor.

 

That they just make it more black and white. So mr. I need to file an April. Doesn’t get all for doubt, but they did, they did make a safe Harbor. It’s 250% and they made everybody list it so that, so the it’s the syndicator that gets audited in those situations, not the individual. So usually what they’re doing is they’re trying to figure out who these promoters are and whether they actually gave away the interest.

 

And so what oftentimes will happen is somebody thinking. I’ll pretend to give away something and we’ll revert back to me in 20 years. So I’ll get a deduction, but it has to be a complete gift and perpetuity. Somebody who, who doesn’t, obviously that’s a syndicator who’s running fast and loose and it’s not.

 

Doesn’t hire competent professionals to look at the situation and say, Hey, you actually have to get your way. And I’ll use the example of our president right now. Trump. Mar-a-Lago is a good example. I think it’s six parcels. Mar-a-Lago the golf course. And he gave away the development rights. I think it was on two or three of them, but also the clubhouse.

 

And so there’s a bunch of cultural antiques in the clubhouse. They have to have a non-profit gala every year, so people can see it. But on the parcels that had the golf course, you gave away the development rights to an outside the conservation RT. And the reason that you do that is so that nobody’s tempted to sell the golf course and build a bunch of houses.

 

It does a couple things, Hey, that will always be open space. It’ll never be developed. They’re not going to build buildings on it. They’re not going to put houses on it. Number two is if there are houses on a golf course, you want to know that they’re not going to sell the golf course. And all of a sudden your house it’s on the fairway on the ninth hole is.

 

All of a sudden in a very dense pack of houses that are on postage stamps, that just happened in a community. That’s literally about a mile away from me here called Queensbridge, where they saw the golf course and they’re going to develop it. And it’s a lawsuit in the making that’s where Snoop Dogg that, by the way, it was in Queens Queensbury, I think it was one of the condos that’s in there, but it was like a super high end area of Summerlin.

 

And yeah, the golf course wasn’t profitable. So the guy just let it go Brown and selling it to a developer. And so all these people that lived on the golf course, all of a sudden, they’re on a Brown golf course. That’s gonna, you know, they’re gonna have neighbors in their backyard. And they thought they were going to be living on a golf course.

 

So there is some benefit to it of saying, Hey, I have a golf course, worst case scenario. It’s going to be open area and you guys can decide, maybe it won’t be a golf course someday, but it’ll be open green area. Maybe it’ll be. Maybe we’ll plant a bunch of trees. And if you give it to like ducks unlimited, maybe there’ll be a wildlife habitat that’s in your backyard.

 

So that’s actually one that people give a lot of land to, but it’s, that’s that world, the people that live in that world land they’re true believers. Like these are the folks that are like, Hey, we need, we need these open spaces, please. Don’t. Put asphalt over everything, especially on why I’d imagine you guys would have an appetite for that.

 

So wrapping things up. The last thing I wanted to go over was the corporate tax rate going from 21 to more of a 28. Do you guys finally got me on a C Corp system after takes me a long time to figure these things out? I don’t have a home office. I have an administrative office because I have a SQL or now I’m getting it.

 

I’m practicing. I’m practicing for that audit, but I’ll probably have you guys talk, but the audit rate is they just came out with the audit rates from 2019, your little, uh, little companies, little S a little seeds, little partnerships were below 0.0, zero five. They didn’t even register. It’s first year, I’ve seen an asterix as the audit rate, as escorts were 0.01, a C Corp syrup when you’re small you’re minuscule, but the people that get audited or the individuals in big companies, companies, the, yeah, the LLC sole proprietors, they still there about it’s still, what would it be about a hundred 1500% more likely to get audited right now?

 

Yeah. It’s not even close. And so I always chocolate because we just don’t see audits here. We actually had seven years that we had zero audits of any of the companies that we set up and we do more than 6,000 returns a year. So like we should be seeing lots of audits because the audit rates traditionally around a percent it’s been dropping, the IRS is understaffed overworked, and they’re focusing on the people that are actually bad doers when you’re a small company.

 

Truly not much that they can get. If you have a lot of different options, you can’t take it one way. You could probably deduct it. And three other different ways as an individual, you have really no options. And so they, when they audit sole proprietors, they win 94 to 95% of the time. It’s a slam dunk. They went about 64% of the audits against companies, corporations.

 

It’s not even close, like when you actually start doing math on it. And you’re like, Oh man, who should I audit is audit sole proprietors all day long out of the modern pause. People are playing games when they’re sole proprietors, you know, they’re more apt to do stupid things. Like you’re not allowed to sell phone.

 

I can’t write off myself on it. And sole proprietorship. I can just go down the email lists and say, who has all the Yahoo or Gmail accounts that have skull audit those guys? They don’t know what they’re doing. If I was the IRS, I would just audit them all. They actually, they do have algorithms and they were auditing all the earned income tax credit.

 

So they were auditing all the poor people that were taking the earned income tax credit because none of them would respond and they’d win. Every audit was the most disgusting thing I ever met. I talked to the programmer who said, I felt dirty after writing the algorithm and it’s stupid stuff like that.

 

You’re just looking at it. And government going guys, I can tell you who the screwballs are. Like we already know who they are. They’re the ones doing everything cheap and fast. So that’s why I do the C Corp guys. But with the taxes going up, Toby is that we’re going to keep it C Corp or we’re going to change it.

 

S-corps what do we do? What’s the plan here calculation to see. So I can tell you the numbers. If you make over a million bucks and you have a C Corp and the C Corp makes its money, pays tax pays it out to you. You’re looking at an aggregate tax bracket of about 59%. That’s going to be painful. So if you’re a high income owner, it’s going to hurt for you lane.

 

If we paid out the profits of the seed Corp, you’re in the 0% tax bracket, your long-term capital gains is the dividend rate. Well, what about like a lot of my clients, like, Hey, The C Corp to them, or S are a little complicated to them. And th they just think of themselves as lowly little passive investor got a few deals that still makes sense.

 

You just do the math. And so I’ll use a stock trader. As an example, we don’t have a miscellaneous itemized deductions, stock traders. It’s really hard for them to qualify as a business or something called trader status, which is not even in the code. It’s just made up. It gets audited almost every time, or you just use a corporation and you haven’t managed a partnership that has the brokerage account and it sounds complicated, but what it does is it allows you to write off all your expenses that you otherwise wouldn’t get.

 

So you just get a pencil out and you say, all right, how much are those expenses? In my experience, the average expense of an individual who’s doing any sort of investing is between 20 and $25,000 a year. If I can write that off, I just look at your tax bracket and say, is it worth it? So if it’s somebody who’s in the 12% tax bracket and they don’t really care, I look at it and say, it’s going to put an extra, let’s say $2,500 in your pocket.

 

Is it worth it to do an extra tax return and deal with a little complexity? And their answer may be no for somebody else. They may be looking at it and they go, Whoa. Yeah, that’s going to save me about $10,000 a year. I need that extra money because it takes me from making 7% to making 13% a year. That’s a huge, like they’re in the 20 to 24% tax bracket.

 

Exactly. And they start all of a sudden it starts those deductions start to mean something. I don’t want to ever put my, my wallet in somebody else’s back pocket. So I just do the calculation and say, Here’s what it means to you. Is it worth it? Technically it’s the same bookkeeping, no matter what you do, you’re required to keep books and records.

 

So I always say that’s a misnomer. What it really comes down to is the little complexity of running a court. And yeah, maybe it’s an extra hour or two a year that you have to deal with it. It’s not, you do syndications. It’s not like it’s earth shattering. It’s not like it’s a ton of stuff. You just, you have to keep track of your books no matter what, that’s the hardest part for anything is keeping track of the books.

 

So all you’re doing is you’re still doing the bookkeeping. It’s just, I have one other mouse over here that has its own tax bracket. And I like to feed that mouse because unlike me it doesn’t have to pay tax on some of those things. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, wrapping up here will be any other thoughts and feelings or anything else in that crystal ball you don’t want to predict.

 

Yeah. Relax. I would say go slow. Don’t make wild moves. Don’t freak out. If we can’t do things one way, we’ll find some other way. It’s rare that you have catastrophic tax changes. Usually they give us things. And so even in the biggest tax changes that we’ve had, whether it be the 86, whether it be 2003, a tax cut and jobs act individually at axes, actually we’re not.

 

Business taxes went down no matter what those are, which by the way, one 99, eight is also on the chopping block. The 20% deduction, I would just look at it and say, talk to somebody who actually understands how these things work. What are the silver linings they’re giving us tax laws always have silver linings, and it’s just, let’s go find what they are and see if actually your situation benefit.

 

It’s weird, but like usually with a little bit of complexity, those that are willing to embrace it, do better almost all the time, because it’s not like Biden wants to hammer people. What he wants to do is he wants to hand hammer the people that are just doing thing mindlessly or don’t have advisers. And so he sets up traps and if he it’s like you’re catching, I don’t know.

 

Let’s say they’re putting a bunch of hooks in the water and they’re waiting to see who will come up and bite it. So don’t buy it. Yeah. It’s like the heads I win tails. I win complexity helps because in the complexity you can find a path forward and stop complaining, try and find those ways to get her up off.

 

I just wish that Trump hadn’t used the carryback and hadn’t used the accelerated depreciation and use the costs or the conservation easements. Because they used it. They hit him over the head. When really realistically they should have been saying here’s huge tax incentives that we want everybody to participate in.

 

We’d love to see more development. We’d love to see more conservation instead. They said, Oh, look at him. He’s not paying any taxes. Yeah. Like here’s the guy that. He saved billions of dollars on his taxes because there’s incentives to do X, Y, and Z. And he took advantage of those incentives kind of like shut up.

 

You emphasize it. Just why bring all this attention to this stuff, right? They didn’t do it say, Hey, and you saved tens of thousands of dollars a year running your business as an escort. You never heard him say there was one or two articles where they actually pointed out. Hey, you set up a structure where you’re able to reduce your own age disability and survivor’s benefits and Medicare payments.

 

You save yourself. I think it was like 150,000. It was a pretty large amount and yeah, they didn’t beat him over the head for it. Thank God, because we want these things. There’s incentives to do things the appropriate way. We want people to, we want charitable donations. We want conservations and it’s we want development.

 

We want people to. Want to build more housing cause God knows we’re going to need it. And the poor being left behind everywhere on your Island. I know that there’s people that could really use low income housing. Why are they making it so hard? Give us incentives to do it and we’ll take care of it. I actually think maybe with Biden and everything, maybe my taxes might go up 5% overall, but with all the money that they put into the economy and they spend money, like drunken sailors, especially on the low income housing stuff.

 

I think if you’re like before they would put a bunch of housing in projects, right? Like they, they would densify all the low income stuff. Now the push is to spread it out to more suburban apartments here and there amongst nice houses in these neighborhoods. I see that as opportunity for investors to go like apartments, or I know you guys see that stuff too.

 

It’s huge. It’s huge. I work with the United way Catholic charities and nonprofits that work with terminally ill, autistic adults. There’s no housing for these folks. And like, I don’t want to go down that path right now, but it’s. Serious as a millions of folks are going to be in a really bad situation.

 

There’s almost a million autistic adults that are living with their parents. What happens when the parents pass away, these folks can not live on their own. They’re going to need some sort of assistance. So there’s going to be that the elder population is, but we’re living longer in our older population is growing about 25% faster than every, than any other demographic.

 

We’re going to need to house people, but they’re not going to be able to live on their own where we’re going to just put them in nursing homes. That would be horrible. So we’re going to have living arrangements that work there. And then there’s the last 10 years of all the housing that’s been built about 75% has gone to people making more than $75,000 a year.

 

So you have a section of society, especially the millennials that are being underserved. So, uh, what they ought to do is create incentives for folks like you. Folks like me, who love real estate, like to develop and give incentives to solve that problem. And the accelerated depreciation is one fixing the voucher system right now.

 

Not everybody wants to do HUD housing. But there’s other systems for people, whether it be veterans, whether it be somebody who’s got a short-term need or has a certain type of disease, or again, autistic or whatnot, where there’s groups that, that give incentives to people like you and I to help solve that issue.

 

By giving us tax incentives to do it. And that’s the best thing they could do because the government sucks. That feels strange. It really bad. Anything else going on in Anderson, you want to give a shout out to, you know, what we’ve been going gangbusters. We love working in the tax and asset protection and the estate planning.

 

What I would say if you’ve been part of our infinity group for anybody, we’re going to make that free now. The basic infinity that used to be a hundred dollars a month is going down to free. We lowered it $10 last year. And now down to, to free. If you want people to learn how to invest, I love getting young people into it and they actually learned the principles of money.

 

That’s actually really fun. I’m always doing, am I doing one tomorrow? All day long, but we teach a workshop and then there’s, they can come in and trade in the stock market with, with a fiduciary, like a professional every Wednesday. We just train people on how to be good investors and there’s not a dollar to be had.

 

And if they can just go do it, I spoke to some of your mastermind folks in an infinity group, and it’s kind of cool guys. Like it’s, it’s, I’m not a big fan of the stock market. Sure. But the way they teach it as like more, it’s like cashflow investing, but like investing in dividend type of stocks. So they teach you how to do that.

 

It’s great for like younger guys who. Need to save up some money to go buy a rental property and get started. Or some of you older guys, just looking for that hobby to do it too. It’s casual. We call it being a stock market landlord. Everybody forgot that the stock market used to be a place where you got paid to invest.

 

Then it became, Oh, the is going to go up. No. If I gave lane money and said, Hey, open up a restaurant, I’d expect him to pay me something for it. I wouldn’t wait 10 years and say, Hey, if you ever sell that restaurant, I hope we make some money. That’s stupid. So we cashed, or there’s only about 60 companies that give you good cashflow.

 

And then we show you how to rent the stock. So you could make a good 10, 12% a year, pretty consistently out of the stock market. Just picking those companies and renting them out is a fancy way of saying covered calls. It’s actually fun. And, uh, we do it because if younger people start doing that, they won’t be afraid of it and they won’t get taken advantage of by all these knuckleheads out there in their suits, trying to take your money and put it in an account mutual fund and rip you off.

 

I shouldn’t say rip you off. I always get in trouble. Somebody yells at me for saying that mutual funds have really high fees. ETFs are really cheap. Just take 30% of all your gains, right? 70%, 70% is the average what their fee will end up taking away. 70% of all the growth. You’re a hundred percent at risk.

 

You get less than a third of the benefit. Once people realize that’s how wall street makes its money. If you guys want, because I go to the Anderson advisors.com or Mickey mouse and your lane. Good stuff going over. Toby. Appreciate your time. Hey, it’s always fun. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

New Tax Implications from the 2020 Election w/ Toby Mathis [Part 1 of 2]

https://youtu.be/aqPWoki-MP8

Hey, simple passive cashflow listeners. Today. We have Toby Mathis here, a partner at Anderson advisors, the guys who got me to pay no taxes. Thanks again, Toby for that. although I was the one putting in a whole bunch of money into deals, par in economy through the pandemic. So I can say I earned it.

We didn’t do anything. We just point you to where they incentivize you to invest in real estate. Exactly. So today we are coming to you post election and things are pretty early still, but we’re going to be looking into the crystal ball here and make some speculations on where some of the tax laws are going.

And maybe what strategies you guys can be looking towards to maybe even we’ve got to pull the trigger before the end of the year, right? Possibly. the presidential election is looking like it’s going to be Biden. but tell us what really matters here. Is it the president or is it the Senate or the house? Yeah, Congress writes the laws, but the Senate, but the president can always, veto. So you have to be able to get over you basically, you have to have a certain alignment. Otherwise it’s going to keep you from being able to pass certain laws.

The house right now is going to stay Democrat. The Senate is a little bit up, we’re going to be at a deadlock. I think you’re putting it up right now. There’s two more runoffs. I believe in Georgia that might impact things, but it’s either going to be a standstill. if you end up with 50 50, then the vice-president decide.

So if the Biden inheritance are in the white house, then, Harris could pass a deciding vote and you could have changes if there’s not that scenario, it’s really difficult to pass anything without you’re gonna have to get the Senate on board, which means it’s gonna be hard to. Move really dramatically in any one direction.

What we know is what Biden has said he’d like to accomplish. So PRI prior to 2020, this a little bit of a history lesson for folks. so bill gets passed or tax law gets changed. it is. Birthed here in the house, primarily Democrats. So this is where, like the stimulus bill comes out, what is it like 10 million?

And then it goes to the Senate, they chop it down. prior to this, the Republicans had the edge, but it looks like it’s going to be more of a gridlock more than yeah. They both put out their own bills and then they decide that kind of goes through a committee and they decide which pieces they’re going to.

Are going to get an app. That’s where they all negotiated. So that’s why you never really know what’s going to be done until they actually pass it. Holy moly. What did you guys do? What’s the old famous one, you’ll know what’s in it when, after we pass it. So it’s kinda, or sometimes like they’ll write a bill, a Republican bill, and then all the Democrats will veto it, but then they write the same exact bill.

And then they’ll pass it. But it’d be originated from the Democrat side. Yeah. Always they call it the pork, this is what I want in order to allow you to get what you want, man. It’s usually not so good for the taxpayer. Yeah. so let’s just kinda, from what we know of the Biden, what Byron was saying prior to the election and campaigning, where are things heading in terms of taxes?

What do people need to be aware of? So the first thing to know is that the tax cut and jobs act, which they called the Trump tax cuts. A lot of it phases out in 2025 and there’s portions of it that start to phase out even now. there’s a little bits and pieces of things that are set to slowly go away like accelerated depreciation.

After next year will start to drip down. You have other things like your solar credits that are already going down, you have things like. the estate tax exclusion, that’s sitting over $11 million right now. And that’ll revert back to the pre tax cut and jobs act, level, which should somewhere in the five, five to $6 million range, depending on inflation.

So there’s things that no matter what, they’re still going to move, then you have the, Hey, these are the things I want to change. comments from the Biden team and the big one was anybody making over $400,000. They want you to be in the highest tax bracket and they want to move that highest tax bracket to 39.6.

Then they also say, Hey, if you make over a million dollars in capital gains or dividends or the combination of those two, then we want you to pay 39.6 on your capital gains, which would be almost a doubling of the capital gains rates. They also say, Hey, we don’t like this 21% tax rate on C corporations.

We want to make it a flat 28%. And if you remember prior to the tax cut and jobs act, it was graduated. it would be as low as 15. And then it would go up to 39 and back down to 35. It was this bizarre, and they’d just put flat 21%. So for a really small C Corp, it was a little bit worse, but for big companies, it was better.

That was the sort of pre page tries the big guys, right to come back. that was the push for it. There was that what they want to be is more competitive on the international, attracting companies, but their headquarters in the United States, as opposed to incentivizing them to go elsewhere.

We were not competitive as a taxi. They also had the, Hey, we’re going to cut the repatriation of your profits down significantly. I think it was 15%. I don’t know the number off the top of my head, but I know that. They reduced it, so that companies like Apple or Amazon, or some of these companies that have a lot of earnings off shore would bring them back in the United States and perhaps do local investment.

So let’s go back through these and I’m going to ask it from my own selfish perspective, which I hope that listeners are in that same situation too. But like the 2018. Jobs tax and jobs ag, I don’t know what that’s called, but it allowed for a bonus depreciation and whole bunch of passive losses that you could extract from deals that do cost segregations.

Right? That’s the one, whatever that one is. actually you don’t have to worry about the, real estate professional that was actually changed back in. I think it was 90. it’s four 69 seats. Seven, if I’m not mistaken, but that’s carved into the code already. That’s you don’t have to worry about that.

The bonus depreciation was, Hey, if you have five, seven, 15 year property, anything less than 20 years, you could choose to accelerate the depreciation. assume that you have, let’s say you have a carpeting and you put a hundred thousand dollars of carpeting into an apartment building. Normally you’d get to write off $20,000 a year as a deduction because the whole carpet will last five years.

So you’d take $20,000 each year. What accelerated depreciation allows you to do is just boom, taking them one year in order to know what portion of your property is carpet versus cabinets versus fencing versus driveway, all these different, Lifetime, of those particular assets you have to do.

What’s called a cost segregation. There’s always been cost segregation. You’ve always been able to do that, but now all of a sudden we have this huge incentive because about 30% of most buildings are five, seven, 15 year property. So all of a sudden you can accelerate your depreciation at any particular time.

You can just, you can choose five years after owning a building. Boom, I’m going to take it. And you have this acceleration, where you can really accelerate what you’re able to do. Sometimes it’s 50. Sometimes it’s a hundred percent. It depends on when you put the building into service, but you can do the acceleration and all you’re doing.

there’s nothing crazy about it. You’re just writing it off early. You’re still going to write it off over time, but it’s almost like getting a loan from uncle Sam for no interest saying, Hey, I know I’m going to get the tax benefit. Over the next 20 years. How about you? Just give it to me now, early Christmas present.

So if you guys miss it, the rule of thumb is about a third of the building gets written off in the first year, but to simplify it even more, a lot of these deals, you’re trying to max out the leverage 70, 80% loan to value. So what I’ve seen is, passive investors that put in a hundred grand, they’re getting anywhere from 60 cents to almost a dollar.

Back in that first year bonus appreciation, 60 grand or 80 grand back. depending on the deal and yeah, and it offsets not to interrupt you, but it offsets passive income. Unless you qualify as a real estate professional, there is one other one active real estate, but most people make too much. that’s the one that I’m really worried about, right? Like these, the passive loss gravy chain. Getting these super just mean that ain’t going away, that ain’t going away, what you might see as the accelerated depreciation. I think in 2023. So in three years, two years really, will start to go down to 80% and I’ll drop to 60% and then, go down from there.

I’m not certain, but I may, I haven’t looked at it so long lane. It’s probably. If it goes away completely, I’d be shocked. But sometimes it goes down to 50%, which is still pretty good. not w we do a lot of cost segregations where clients, where we will direct them to have them done. Not always do we accelerate the depreciation, especially not on the five-year property.

Sometimes you just let it spread because unlike you like, w you’re a real estate professional, you had massive amounts of deduction. But it doesn’t help you to get really dizzy zero because the lower tax rates are pretty low. Like I’m okay. Paying 12%. I’m okay. Paying 22%. What? I’m not. Okay.

Is paying 39.6% on rents. I’m not okay. Paying 37%. I’m not okay. Paying 32%. Like it’s getting too high plus by state. So sometimes it’s just about making sure that you’re hitting that number. So I tend to look at 200,000, And say, if I can keep people around $200,000 a year, that tax, it’s not going to be so extreme, you get up into the half, a million, 600,000 range, every dollar.

So much of it is being taken away from you. for every dollar you make, let’s say we had the Biden one. For every dollar you made after a million bucks, if somebody was taking 60% of it and that’s really what it gets up to, if somebody is taking that much away from you, you’re probably don’t have much incentive to make money and it’s hurting.

Cause it’s not always cash that you’re receiving. Sometimes it’s profit, that’s blowing down via K one or your investment. You don’t have the cash. Now you have to liquidate assets to pay the tax bill. And that’s what we want to make sure that you’re never in that situation. Yeah. so sometimes I think just to summarize what Toby saying, you have to be strategic on how you use those passive losses.

You don’t want to burry burn your AGI down to zero. Sometimes it’s good to pay a little bit taxes. you can’t help it because you’re the sponsor and you have, you’re leveraging up. So you’re going to get these massive. Deductions, not everybody gets that. A lot of folks that are just, they’re not going to pay any tax on rents the next 10 years, because they got a huge deduction and they may be making, $50,000 a year with rental that they’re putting in their pocket, but they don’t have to pay any tax on it.

Yeah. so like I talked to my tax guy and he burned up all my passive losses and I asked, he told me, he said, I should pay some taxes. But the conversation that we had that I got on board on was like, he was like, you’re probably better off paying no taxes and investing the money and just kick it forward.

But it depends on your situation, right? if you have a W2 job, you’re going to be okay. and if you need loans on a home or something, you need to have some income. If you don’t need that, like you’re leveraging on the asset, you don’t need the income. So you may as well not pay it, use that money to continue to invest.

Yeah. so the tax cut jobs act tax that’s phasing out the pass of losses, the accelerated bonus depreciation in the year 20, 22 and beyond. So yeah, look at that, I think 20, 22 years safe, I think it’s after 2020, I think you’re right. It, we’ve probably got a couple more years of where the getting’s good.

And that’s plenty of time for me, but what is, what are you thinking it’s coming up in the future is like the Biden clan going to be putting, getting rid of that, or I’m thinking that hopefully they can just focus on that 10 31 exchange and leave me alone and they want to get rid of the 10 31 exchange.

They want to get rid of step up in basis and that’s going to affect all of us. that’s huge. That’s huge for anybody who has substantial amount of real estate, that could be really painful. It’s going to force you to have to get rid of your real estate during your lifetime, because it’s not going to step up, which means if you’ve depreciated it accelerated the depreciation, then, you’re going to have some substantial recapture when somebody, if somebody sells it after you’ve passed.

so I’m not too pleased about that. that one, that all, isn’t the game plan. They’re like, all right, the Democrats have it. Now, if you’re a 40 years old, surely in the next 30 years, some more tax friendly leadership will get in there and swing the state taxes the other way. And that’s what you do.

Yeah. that’s the ideas right now. The law is what it is and I tell people don’t make dramatic switches until the law actually looks inevitably going to be changed. Cause even when you think, somebody gets in as president and they said, this is what I’m going to do. good luck.

Getting that through. Especially if you don’t have the, the, the house and Senate. Good luck. if you have the house and Senate fantastic. They might be able to get some things through, but even then, it’s not used to be, you can filibuster in towns, but the, It’s still not a, it’s not a guaranteed and people oftentimes campaign on things and then do something else as well.

So I tend not to make dramatic switches until I actually see laws being drafted or changed and they have support. and even if we, Biden’s Binance has won now, he’s even in the first hundred days, it’s going to take what another year, 18 months for that law to go into effect for the previous tax year, too.

So there’s. Probably about a couple of years of, turnover time I’m thinking. Yeah, good. If they could get something through in the first year. And again, the way that, the way it works is they can’t go back and change something, but they can say going forward. So if you pass away or if you remember this, but I think it was, the owner of the gang.

He was passed away during a year where there was no estate tax at all. We didn’t even have the $11 million cap Steinbrenner. This is not that long ago. Yeah. So he avoided billions of dollars. Like he, he, the joke we all had was people are going to snuff out their parents, like on December 31st, if they’re on their death, there’ll be like, let me help you along here because the, the taxes can be so extreme the following day.

it’s we’re going to have a new year’s Eve party with a bunch of pillows. It’s horrible. But that we were there was actually concerned about that and Oh boy, if somebody is on life support, they’re going to have a real incentive to pull the plug. It’s morbid, but it actually was discussed in the tax world.

There were many discussions on it. what would you do? And, So it’s not always, we think like these things have been debated for years. I remember when I first became an attorney, the estate tax exclusion was 600,000 wasn’t, was not very high in a lot of people got hit by it. And then it went up to a million and then it would defy a million.

Now it’s over 11 million and then they said, portability, most spouses can use it. It used to be way to have a, we had to use a trust to double it up. But that’s still on the table and Biden is shown all indications that he wants that to go back to the way it was before the tax cut and jobs act.

But he also wants to eliminate that step up in basis. And the step up in basis in English just means if I have a building that I’ve depreciated or a piece of real estate or stock say I’ve owned stock for 20 years. And it’s gone up in value. The day I pass my, the value steps up, or the basis steps up to the fair market value on the date that I pass.

So if I have a building that I’ve depreciated in my basis might be a little bit of land, maybe it’s a hundred thousand it’s million dollar building. Right now, if I pass the base, that steps up to a million dollars, I live in a community property state. So even my spouse could sell it the day after I die and pay zero tax, no recapture.

If that goes away, then assuming that, somebody had to sell an asset after somebody passes or wants to cause they don’t want to manage it and they sell it. no they’re going to pay recapture in capital gains. On that. So they’re going to pay up to 25% on the recapture and up to a underbite and it could be 39.6% on the capital gains.

So it’s a pretty big hit. Now the other side to that is if it’s real estate, not only does the patient have stepped up, but you can read deep, read deep, appreciate it. You know you, so you can go back and write it off again, and you lose that. So that’s flying under the radar. And that’s the one that I focus on saying that’s the one that’s going to have the biggest impact on our clients is people who aren’t investors are going to get punished.

And under that plan, and I don’t like it because before the strategy was just die and pass it off. And then your kids get the step up basis and you go wash the asset strategy was accumulate real estate and stock in capital assets. 10 31 exchange you’re real estate into more real estate leverage. Use those, use the proceeds, if you need to, for other things, and then pass away and you don’t have to worry about any tax that you could either.

depreciate it. So they’re not going to pay any tax on it in the wrench for a long time. so you’re going to have to appreciate it again after they’ve passed at that higher amount. And all of a sudden they’re getting huge tax benefits. or they sell it and they pay no tax. And so there was always that kind of, the silver lining, especially in community property States where the first spouse, everything steps up.

dad passes and mom can sell the stock and not have to worry about getting hit with capital gains. Now mom could be getting hit with as much as 39.6% federal plus the net investment income tax, which is 3.8. Plus their state taxes, which can be as high as 13%. So you could be in a scenario where you’re paying, 50, some odd percent it get, it gets a little ridiculous.

So is the solution either to wait until a different party is in there and changes the login or some kind of dynasty trust or a trust irrevocable trust that owns the assets. So it never. Ever does a step up. Yeah, it’s, that’s a tough one because yeah, because no matter what if I put it into trust, the basis is the basis I’m done.

So when they there’s really not much of a strategy on the step-up you can do, what’s called a deferred sales trust on substantial assets, or you’re spread it out over time and you allow a installment sale essentially. and then step up the basis and you sell it and avoid the tax immediately, but you spread it out over, let’s say 20 or 30 years.

So there’s still some strategies that you can do to lessen it. realistically, under those circumstances, it’s just, you’re sitting down going option a, B, C at the time. I’ve seen people make changes where they were scared to death. So I’ll give you a good example. I had a client, it was siblings.

So there was five siblings and the dad had a office building and this particular office building was in Ohio, but it has substantial value. So they were worried about the estate tax. So he started giving away interest and that building wasn’t eliminated partnership. So this is back in the day when limited partnerships ruled the world and not LLCs.

And he would give his kids these interest. So he transferred the entire building to his children before he passed. he’d own that building for going on 40 years, the basis was tiny. And then when he passed, it was in the year that they had unlimited, the unlimited, the state tax exclusion. So there wouldn’t have been an estate tax at all.

And he would’ve still been underneath the threshold. it was multimillion dollar building, but he’d given it all onto his kids. So his kids said, Hey, we’re going to sell it now. their basis was his basis, which was almost zero. So they got hit with this huge tax bill that would have been avoided, completely had he just done nothing.

And so I tend to look at attorneys that are, pushing people to do huge gifts. make big changes and I’d say, don’t do that. You don’t know what the future is going to be. You could make, you could really hurt yourself. And those kids that hurt them. They were like, there was a little bit of a dispute over whether they wanted to keep it and operate it, but it was like they didn’t have the depreciation.

So they actually had income coming in off this thing. And they were like, Oh my gosh, they had to do some fix up on it. There was some capital call issues. And so they decided they wanted to sell it. And instead of getting a dollar, they were getting, 60 cents. And, because it’s not cheap to sell a building, you’re paying the commission, you’re paying the real estate tax, the closing costs and all these things that eats away.

Plus you’re paying long-term capital gains on that thing. and you have a lot of recapture on the original building and in the improvements that they had done thereafter. it ended up really hurting and it was shocking to look at it. And, and I’m talking to the accountant who advised him the whole time.

And I could tell, he was like, Oh, that was what the dad wanted to do. And they overreacted to. Yes. Long changes, similar. you never know, right? Like a lot of this is the art form. You never know what’s going to happen. You got to play you to stand there and play goalie and you don’t know which way they’re going to kick it.

in this situation, it’s makes sense to procrastinate. And it reminds me of one of my biggest pet peeves is like my clients. They always want to file their taxes in April. what are you doing? Just wait until October. That’s when it’s really due. Sit back and wait, as long as you can.

I had a guy yell at me. He wanted one of us to file the S-corp in March and he goes, I’ve never been late. And I said, you’re not late. You’re entitled to an automatic extension. That’ll take us out to September. And he goes, I’ve never used that. I’ve never been late. And I kept saying, look, your tax payment is due on April 15th.

You had probably some quarterly taxes due, like as long as you pay in that. We’re not worried about penalties or interest, right? Their tax return itself has an initial due date of March 15th that you can automatically extend. You don’t have to ask for permission. You just say, I’m going to use my extension.

he forced us to do it. And then it goes close to September and he had made more than he realized. And he had a 401k and he had taken a really substantial salary. And I said, The sad part is we could make a pretty sizable contribution to your 401k for last year, but we can’t do that. Now. He goes, why can’t we do that now?

Because you’ve forced me, this idiot came in and told us to do this, from that point forward, we didn’t have to have that conversation anymore. Yeah. Fishy the eighth students that then thank you on it. Do that. There’s a few that sometimes you beat your head against the wall. The other one was, they’ll change K ones.

So you know, your syndicator, sometimes things change during the summer. You start finding out are their expenses and you’re going through your books and you’re sitting there and you’re like, you have a couple of choices. Like I can either fix the K one and give everybody a new K one. The problem is if they filed their taxes off the first K one that came out now they’re going to have to amend.

And so I always tell people like, wait till the last minute, so that your investments have a chance to make any changes. th the fun one was, the year that the, option reporting or the basis reporting, in brokerage houses came out and then they all use the same software and it was all incorrect.

So they sent out all these tax forms to their clients who ran out and filed their taxes. And then they corrected them about a month later after the tax deadline. And it’s you can either get audited or you can fix it. And now you’re gonna have to amend your return and you’re gonna pay to basically do your return again.

I always, I, we always try and get it out and March before the April the deadline, but I always feel like at least half the little. Probably less than half, still file it in April anyway, but there’s no reason. There’s no reason to file just, even if your return is done, just don’t file it.

Just file the extension, pay the taxes and you don’t have to worry about anything. And it gives them the opportunity to go back and revisit issues because you do have until the tax deadline. To make contribution, company contributions to retirement plans. So you never want to take that off the table.

You also have, you could be doing a cost segregation election all the way up until October 15th. So you don’t want to, that one, we could actually go back and amend, but why, like, why would you put yourself in a situation where you’re paying twice for something when you could just wait and do it once?

So going back to the whole, simple basis might be going away. And this is a bigger strategy that I’ve always said, it’s like, why would you want to own your own properties? That issue, especially if you’re not a professional operator, be a passive investor, split your net stake up into 50, a hundred thousand dollars increments and just bankroll a big Bon of passive losses and gains, never have to worry about any of these types of things one way or the other.

Yeah. th there’s something that you can do no matter what they do, because you still have exempt entities and exempt entities are like your 401k, your IRA, your Roth, IRA, Roth, 401k, but also five Oh one C3. And, Len you’ve known me enough that this comes up quite often with anybody who has substantial wealth.

That five Oh one C3 is your best friend because it gets it out of your estate when you get a tax deduction. Now. So worst case scenario, let’s just say that by, in the Senate and the house conspired to take away 10 30, one exchanges and the step-up in basis, they, increased capital gains rates.

They, they create a 39.6% top tax bracket that your dividends and capital gains can be taxed at. If you make over a million bucks, itemized deductions already gone, but w they were talking about bringing it in, but having a it’s basically, it’s only for people making less than 400,000, they have a kind of a funky calculation.

If you make over 400,000 where it goes away, I can still give things away. I can still take a charitable deduction for it, even if it’s a capital asset. And I can write a lot of that stuff off at my fair market value. Once it’s in a five Oh one C3, I’m not worried about step up or estate tax or anything again, because it’s not mine and my heirs still have access to it.

So those types of strategies will become even more important. which just means. There’s only so much stuff I need to own personally and have access to personally. Sometimes it’s better to get it into a vehicle where we never have to have these conversations ever again, the vehicle doesn’t pay tax.

And I love those because the only conversation I have with people then is how much do you want your kids to be able to take out of the business? And we know it has to be a reasonable amount, so nobody’s going to be buying Lamborghini’s off of your estate. nobody’s going to be able to go in there and just rape and pillage your estate.

The best scenario is they’re operating something that’s in your, that you created, and they’re able to take a salary for the rest of their lives. And then that can go to the next generation. So what Sylvia is talking about is creating a nonprofit. Creating that estate and being able to, what if the guy wants maybe not elaborate beanie, but he wants to take a $200,000 salary for his kids buy a Camry in the process, does that now you have to pay taxes on that.

Yeah. They pay taxes. It comes out. and I’m not talking about private foundations either here guys. there’s a lot of things that qualify as real estate, excuse me, as a charitable activity in real estate. Veterans housing, low income housing, HUD housing, moderate income, housing, housing for, you fill in the blank.

If it’s a disadvantaged group, single moms, we’ve seen it all residential assisted living. you can own a substantial amount of real estate, or if you’re actually operating a charity, doing something else it’s allowed to own passive real estate. So like the California teachers’ union owns a ton of like lots of buildings.

That’s their problem. Like they have a lot of investments and things, but what is it? Therefore, it is a retirement plan for teachers. It’s an exempt organization. So there’s lots of those. And there’s a misnomer that somehow that money is never for your benefit. Now you can take a salary, you just can’t take the profit out.

there’s a, it’s called private a newer minute. Can’t go to the benefit of any private individual, the profits. So I can’t just take it. What I can do is continue to operate it for what I set it up for. And it can, it’s going to grow and it’s going to grow extensively. And then you pay people, a reasonable salary is very subjective, depending on how much you want to do.

Yeah. Then they pay taxes. They take that out. But if they don’t need the money, which is what I see, I’ll tell you, because we’ve done over 4,000 of these it’s a one-way road. People tend to put money into the charities. They take very little out. and most of the kids that I’ve seen as we transition, because I’ve been doing this, over two decades, you start seeing a situation where the kids actually get behind it, and then they’re using it to lower their tax brackets as well.

I haven’t seen it where people are taking ridiculous amounts of money or trying to get access to money because they’re investing through that vehicle. And I like it because all of these conversations become moot. As I say, how much tax am I going to be paying none. You want to give it a house?

You’re going to write off the value of the house against your gesture, gross income. What? I’ve owned this house for 20 years and I only paid a hundred thousand for it. Now it’s worth half a million. Yeah. You get to write off the half a million. There’s an adjusted gross income limit of 30%. So maybe you’re gonna write it off over three or four years, but you’re still going to get a pretty sizable deduction.

People have a hard time getting their head around that. And then that asset is in there and it never pays tax. You don’t have to worry about who dies or any of that stuff. I just find it for again, for the affluent people that have a lot of money, that is something that they definitely should be looking at.

when you’re in real estate, like the type of real estate you do lane, the tax benefits are so ridiculously good right now. You don’t need to. But after you’ve, after you used a lot of the tax benefits for you, if they take them away, then you still have an alternative without doing anything crazy.

How to Set the Reversion (Exit) Cap Rate

https://youtu.be/yyxcm3F0u4I

0:00
Then the reversing cap rate that we’re using is 6.25, using a 6.25. But what are assets trading here with low fives,

0:10
yeah, five, and even under five, depending on where it is,

0:13
we’ll get into that in a bit.

0:21
Going back to the reversing cap rate, we’re using a 6.25, or version cap rate. I’ve kind of got to this a lot of times, but it’s still good worth repeating, took me a long time to find a grasp this concept. But this number that we plug in here at 6.25, is one of the biggest factors in coming up with all these projections. this number right here is the assumption of what kind of market we’re going to sell in, say, five years. So now, we want to assume that, you know, when you’re being conservative, you want to assume that you’re selling in a worst market. So we’re going to expand the version cap rate higher. So 6.25, is what we’re using. And that is how we you know, we put in 6.25 like how we are that’s how we’re getting the projected onto 2% return in five years. Now the question is like, well, what did you guys are less conservative or don’t expand your version Capri as much? Well, if we went to five and a half percent reversion cap rate, you know, we’ll be we would be putting this deal out at onto 58% return in five years, which would look awesome. But no, we like to over promise under develop under deliver. Poppy raised a lot of money and fill up this deal really quickly. But

1:41
yeah, no, that’s a that’s a good education point for people who, you know, if they are looking at other deals by other operators, you know, that’s a common that’s a that’s an easy change to make that really makes the returns go one way or the other, as you can see here. So if you if you ever see something that looks too good to be true in that range, you know, may dig a little deeper and ask what their assume reversion cap rate is that they’re using for the deal.

2:10
Right, and you know, the 6.25 con, I kind of go back and forth several days deciding on this number plus or minus a quarter point to have a point where we’re about what we’re going to use. If this this is again, a more of a Class B type of asset in a good area, a minus area. So that’s why you 6.25 but say it was more of a class C 1960s 1970s build, we probably would have used what like a 6.5% reversion cap. So you can’t just you can’t just compare the reversion cap rates for two deals, because the assets might be different, the locations might be different. The geographic locations might be different. I think we’ve used like for Huntsville, we’ve use 6.25

2:57
Also give us 6.25 to six and a half. And even on some of our earlier deals, we use seven but we use a little bit too conservative.

3:06
But the thought there was you know, Houston is a little bit more major market. You know if you compare that with your cap rates out in like Los Angeles or San Francisco, which is in the twos and threes, that’s kind of where we come up with some educated guesses and you know, if there were if the cap rates stay the same Tibet it is today at 5.25. You know, that means this deals looking like it’s gonna be 180% return in five years. But let’s keep expectations low because life is hard enough.

 

Dealing with Natural Disasters – Multi-family Real Estate

https://youtu.be/RYlKILsj2Js

0:02
On question seven here, investor asks, you know, these Gulf states are always getting hit with storms. I think we were just reminded about that. A couple few weeks ago, we’ve actually got some properties in Biloxi. Kyle and I are in some projects not with each other. So we have bring a wide range of responses to this question. And we let you talk about garden place to let you take that one. But, sure, as far as like insurance goes, you know, this is why it’s nice to not be a little landlord, what’s your little State Farm Allstate Insurance, right, we have big kid insurance here, for commercial assets were insured for the loss rents. And when we have a claim, we hire a claims person to fight on our behalf. And they get compensated based on how much the claim is. 

So a lot of times, I’ve actually had like two fires, and we’re full building has burned down twice. And the initial settlement that they gave us was like a third of what we actually ended up with, which goes the show why these claims adjuster guys are just totally worth it. And on a bigger project like this, we have the scales and the means to, you know, the working capital or pay them to get them going to fight or claim for us to get everything that we’re worth. I feel like, yeah, there’s administrative headache, for sure, we may have to pull some money out of our reserve capital. 

But at the end of the day, most times and not like, come out ahead. I’ve gotten like a brand new roof, put on a apartment building one time, which I thought was totally unfair, but hey, I’m gonna take it, I’m gonna take that I got a brand new building built on that one, we negotiated just a lump sum payment to go build something entirely new. I think the only problem is like, it just takes a while. Maybe Carl, you can talk about the garden, place the treat and submit to just kind of work. Yeah.

1:59
Well,

2:00
Unfortunately, you’re working with these big insurance companies. But at the end of the day, you’re also still working with people in human error can still creep in every now and then, which is what happened to us at garden place. So it, you know, we had a big tree that fell. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. There were some high winds in the area, and the tree just fell down. And this is Huntsville. So it’s not like near the Gulf or anything else, you know, they might have, you know, some tornadoes every now and then. But it’s definitely not in Tornado Alley, like in Dallas, or Oklahoma or Kansas or something like that. 

But anyways, it took this was almost a year ago, now we are we are about to finally took 11 units offline, we are finally wrapping up the last four units, but it took forever because the insurance company, just something so simple. They were sending the check. The first the first check, which is where we pay the contractor deposit, they were sending it to the wrong address. So how it was a never changed on their part, I don’t know. But they sent the check three different times over the course of like, you know, three months. And we were just at a loss. But But I do you know, I live here in the Gulf states. Hurricanes is just something that we deal with. You know, it’s not any different than if you’re in California, excuse me, California, and you have to deal with with wildfires. Or if you’re in, you know, Tornado Alley, like I just mentioned, you know, there’s a ton of obviously great assets in the Dallas area. Dallas sees tornadoes on, you know, annual basis, you know, every now and then there’s at least two or three big tornado storms that come through the Dallas area, you know, between the spring and the summer, it’s not uncommon there. And same thing with Oklahoma and Kansas. 

So you know, and then a way up north, you’ve got these crazy blizzards and everything else that can just, you know, take a toll on your property itself, just from the the bitter winters that they have up north. So, you know, it’s like anything else, we each area of the country has their own natural disaster. 

So you just make sure you have the right insurance that is going to cover you like Lane said we have lost rents, which means that for every month, that goes by that, you know, in our case, those 11 units are offline, we’re actually getting paid by the insurance company, the average of those rents, you know, the average for like, I think it was like the last six or nine months, whatever the average rent was for that specific unit. That’s the amount that they give us. So we’re covered there. So yes, it’s never a good situation. I would say to have to file a claim, especially on you know, when you’re talking about fires, I mean, because, you know, at the end of day we are talking about displacing people and having the final alternative housing for them. And then a lot of cases when we have a fire or down units in general. So, you know, we’re certainly sensitive to that. 

But to not, you know, we don’t want to downplay it by any means. But from an investor perspective and a risk profile, we’re covered. And we’re going to take the right amount of insurance out there, you know, I think people often forget that our our number one biggest investor on every single deal is our lender. Our lender is going to have certain parameters and certain guidelines and certain requirements from an insurance perspective that they’re going to require us to do. And Fannie and Freddie is notorious for that. And just having you know, additional coverages and things like that, that, you know, a normal traditional insurance agent is going to say, hey, look, you know, yes, you can take that type of coverage. It’s, it’s cost more, it’s just more of conservative, you know, it’s I’ve had multiple insurance brokers tell me that type of make those type of comments. So you know, they’re gonna require us, so we’re going to be fully covered there.

6:09
Yeah. And, and all that debacle is happening, we’re collecting loss rents. And the beauty of that is like, now these assets aren’t decaying on us. They’re not incurring expenses. We’re not having property management of these on top of that, and there’s a bit of a nice little Delta in there that we come out ahead.

Accredited Coaching Call – CPA from Hawaii

https://youtu.be/0NaO8faSOdY

What’s up guys on today’s podcast, we are going to be interviewing on a coaching call and a credit investor who is a CPA here in Hawaii. We’re going to dig in and see what his net worth, see what he’s been up to and advise them along. But before we get going, and I just wanted to give some commentary on where we are in the year 2020.

I think most people will say, it’s been a pretty rough year. depending what you’ve been up to. we’ve been. In our week group, we’ve been pretty much prudent picking up deals that cashflow staying away from more of those class C deals that have bad collections, that tenant base. And I’m thinking of better assets with better tenants, with a little bit of a value add.

I don’t see all the strategy can go wrong, right? if it’s cash flowing day one, you underwrite it where the occupancy can drop 20, 30% and you’re still in the black. I don’t see why. Why you would need to wait like this narrative, a lot of people go by, Oh, I’m waiting until their lecture. I’m waiting until next year. Just three reasons why I think waiting is just a bad idea here. Like number one, you’re not gonna have access to those deals. If you’re not already in the game plan, you’re not going to have access to those relationships, the lender relationships. And you’re not going to know what the deal is.

Most people who say that assert the guys get started. Number two, I’m not buying assets that are distressed deals. Anyway. if you notice that my stuff is 90% occupied or more so I can get that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac debt, but you per se, I don’t really go after distress assets. And I think like a lot of these guys are saying, they’re going to wait till this distress inventory comes online and I’m like, dude, you’re not even a sophisticated investor.

You haven’t bought anything. What are you going to do with the distress asset? It falls into your life. You’ll probably screw it up. I don’t want, I don’t want to touch those distress assets. Neither, personally. I like stabilize ass to make it go. And lastly, by the time you’re ready to jump in. How are you going to know?

Like we, did you jump in around 2009 to 2014? No, a lot of people did it. They didn’t know when the bottom was maybe because they didn’t have the relationships and connections. Those who are already in the game strategically and prudently picking up Castro were the winners back then. And I think that’s what it is now.
And I do believe that this will all pass and I don’t follow people who are trying to get rich off doom and gloom and getting people to buy gold and get a little bit affiliate commissions done in that way. A little bit of me personally, lately, I’ve been trying to not work 12 to 14 hours. Been taking a little bit of a lunch break.

Normally I just work right through, but I, make my simple little lunch put on the YouTube. And yesterday I was watching a video by Kevin O’Leary, the shark tank guy, people call him mr. Wonderful. And I’m looking here with a video. If you want to look it up, how I made my first million dollars part one, it’s a 20 minute video, but I thought it was pretty cool.

And he talked about it, the story of how. No, you can get tricked into taking a salary. He gives a story. He repeats a story a lot, but I’ll summarize it, he, his first job was working in ice cream shops. Who’ve been ice cream. And the reason why he did it was there was like a cute girl next door in the adjacent store.

He wanted to be close to her. So he took that job. And after his first day at work, he was scooping ice cream and they’re wrapping up shop and. normally when people ask for samples, they throw their gum on the ground. And it’s, I guess it’s really nice Mexican tile. It looks really beautiful.

And so he was wrapping up and then the owner told him to go pick up the gum that people dropped on the floor. And of course, he sees the girl in the adjacent story. He doesn’t want to bend down and do it. And he’s no, you paid me to scoop ice cream, not like scraped gum off the floor.

And then she told him to get on his bike and never come back again. And today he’s very thankful for that. Because after that, he said he never really worked for money now, I think not a lot of people were like, mr. Wonder, he comes, it comes across as a little jerk. But I think that, a lot of people that they follow their career path a little bit too long and it never really go after their passions.

And maybe they’re, they just want to hit a financial freedom. That’s cool too. And a job is a means to the end. Not everybody’s going to become an entrepreneur and crack that $5 million, $10 million, $15 million net worth level for a lot of us, they listen to the civil past the cashflow that come out to our events and know your guys’ profile. You guys are hardworking professionals. It’s not practical to tell your boss that you’re just here to scoop ice cream. You’re not going to pick gum off the floor. You got to go pick up gum off the floor because you guys got a, you got families and you got to put food on the table.

But I think for me, the takeaway and where I disagree with mr. Wonderful. Here, you got to pick up gum off the floor, but if you put your money to good sound investments that all perform the retail stock and mutual fund market, and he’d do it in such a manner where you paid very little taxes. you guys can check out my taxes on school, passive cashflow.com/tax, but that’s enough on that.
you’re going to get financially free. And, I’d say under a decade, if you’re able to save 30 and $50,000 to investments every year. maybe your goals as in five, 10, $15 million, but mr. Wonderful kind of also outlines, how do people get to that level? Five, 10, 50, a hundred million dollars net worth.

Now maybe I don’t aspire to be there and maybe you don’t either, people who get to that level. There was always this getting to this pedestal of your first million dollars. And somebody talks about in this video is stories was going and learning how to be a cinematographer, making videos.

And that was his trade. He made a deal with his business school to make a MBA video promoting the program, but he just made like 40,000 bucks, but he parlayed that into another venture. Putting together short bits. And then he eventually sold that company or a, undervalued dollars amount of money, but that allowed him to get into the next software venture with another person who did the software.
He sold it. And that was obviously a soft key and his other business there that parlayed into the five, $10 million plus range. But yeah. all these entrepreneurs that you see that are very famous, it’s usually about two or three steps, two or three things that went right for them to get there.

And they’re outliers, I’d say most of us that are listening on the podcast. We’re just trying to get our first one and then invested smartly. And yeah, you may not do some business venture, but your job can get you there. Especially if you’re making over a hundred, 200 grand a year. If you just invest there, Be smart with taxes. You’re not going to make soft key, like how Kevin Larry did and sell it in a few years. if you work at your job for 10 years or maybe even 20 years, if you’re doing it the slow mutual fund way, it’ll get you to that first level. And once you get up to that first level, that’s where you take it up to or legacy wealth creation.

I talk a lot about, getting to your first hundred thousand dollar level for the guys in the incubator group, getting their preferred keys. And then once you get up to the half, a million million dollar Mark is a net worth, and then you get to this, a credit investor status. But for those who are credit investors, the next nice threshold they get to is a three and a half, $5 million market.

At that point, you’re able to live pretty comfortably. And when he talks about this video as most entrepreneurs. At some point, they just realize that they’re rich, they’re affluent at that point. And it’s a very binary thing that you’re living very cheapy me personally. I feel like I’m still pretty poor at this point.

Maybe I’ll one day I’ll have that epiphany, but check out the video, how I made my first million dollars part one asked mr. Wonderful is the YouTube and continuing to watch more of these, inspirational videos. But yeah, enjoy the coaching call. And if you guys would like to get on a coaching call and we still do these four volunteers are willing to put themselves out there.

I haven’t checked out the website yet, and there’s a whole bunch of stuff out there. One thing I would suggest is if you’re looking for some kind of activity to do in the winter time from home, try and check out our guide on trade lines, go to simple, pass a castle.com/trade lines. It’s a great way that I made at least $10,000 these past two years doing this on the side, renting out my credit card slots, my authorized user slots on my credit cards.
And if you haven’t yet join our club at simplepassivecashflow.com/club. 

Hey, simple passive cashflow listeners. Today. We are doing a numb, another who we member coaching call. And I think this one’s gonna be a good one. We’ve got a credit investor here worth 1.2 million bucks, a semi high income earner, not too high, like in the three hundreds, like some of the doctor dentists we’ve got, but definitely making a good professional salary.

So this should apply to a lot of you guys. But we have Brian, who is a CPA from Hawaii, a local guys here, but yeah, Brian, why don’t you tell us your story a little bit. Give us the context. Before we start digging into your personal financial statement. Yeah, sure. So like many folks, I ended up leaving Hawaii and I went to college on the mainland.

I got my undergraduate degree from Oregon, a school in Oregon. And after that, I was fortunate enough to get a job here back in Hawaii. So when you get a degree in accounting, usually start off as like in public accounting, working for a firm. So that was the route I took. I was doing, assurance or audit work.

And after about three and a half years there at that firm, I was like, I don’t think this is really for me. I don’t think it’s going to be, I’m not going to be in the partner track. so to speak. So I jumped off and went to private industry and I’ve been there ever since. I’ve worked a few different jobs.

I actually ended up working for a few real estate companies and I’m still working for one right now. They’re a developer of resort properties. And golf courses and similar type acids and yeah, that’s basically it. Oh, and prior to that, I was working as an analyst for a home builder, a national home builder.

So I was able to get a good grasp on the numbers side of working for a real estate company and working real estate deals. But now I don’t really do that. I focus more on the accounting side, so not as cool. That is exciting. And sexy, but it’s a job. Yeah. Pays well. And just for a little context, probably of a, I would say nine, 10% of the members are actually here from Hawaii, but it’s so Brian and I actually went to the same high school.

I don’t know. We haven’t seen each other since what, like 15 or 20 years ago. we’re on the golf team. We both kind of suck. yeah. And for those of you guys don’t know the bottom tier guys. Yeah. Like they send us out and because we have to play for a position, but it’s just we’re just here because it’s free.

And our parents told us to do it, told us to do it because this is the way to stir up resumes to get into college. At least that was what I was told to do. but yeah, so people in Hawaii, they usually go to school in the mainlands because the school is not too good here. Yeah. How long were you on the mainland?

Like after college working? I actually didn’t really work up there. Stayed up there for a little while after I graduated, but I graduated when times are pretty tough. So to speak is like 2010, 2011. So there were too many jobs available. I probably didn’t do a good enough job marketing myself when I was in college also.

So yeah, it was, I was lucky to get a job here. I think. Yeah. Around that time. Yeah, no offense, man. But you and I are similar. We’re like underperformers at the, the corporate life, which is probably why they didn’t read, circle you to a be partner or level thing, which is why we’re here.

And this is why your net worth is this way, because you chose a different path along the way. Possible. Yeah. Any feedback for younger guys and the CPA track? Cause you, you look like you’re 25, but you’re really actually Oh, you’re two years younger than myself. You’ve been working for quite a while.

how does it kind of work? You’ve worked for four years getting coffee for people or. How does it normally work? Yeah, I think it’s probably similar across the nation where you start out at a firm, you work these long hours doing pretty menial tasks. You’re the grunt, the low man on the totem pole, but I still would recommend.
That folks that are doing accounting out of college do work for a firm. I think you gain really valuable experience doing those horrible menial tasks for years and making a pretty poor salary. But yeah, overall, the experience I would say is it’s pretty good. And you come out of college with.

Sort of a year, your own group or cohort people that are similar aged with you. And they all are hired to firms at the same time. So it’s a nice stepping stone into work in the real world, so to speak. So you’re working with people that are your same age and similar experience and background a lot of times.

So it can be fun a lot of times. And also horrible, but yeah, I’d definitely recommend it. Yeah. So we break that we work backwards. The net worth is the score, right? A $1.2 million net worth. You make about 90, a hundred grand a year, living in Hawaii where salaries are maybe like 20 or 30%, less than counter promise on the mainland.
When I first see this, I’m a, head-scratcher all the C I do, unless somebody gave you a lot of money. She think you got a little help, I think, right? Like shit for a down payment, but not much, but I automatically know right now that you did something real estate probably related. I’m just have a hunch.

I kinda know, but tell us about like, when did she start investing in real estate? Because I see this all the time, right? Like doctors, for example, they make over 300 grand a year. I very rarely see them above one to $2 million network. But the guys who are investing and doing this stuff, like there are like three, four, five plus million at least.

So it’s like night and day numbers don’t lie. So tell us, how did you get to 1.2 here? Yeah, I guess part of it was luck and a lot of. some unlucky ness also, but I started young when I was about maybe two years out of college. I bought my first unit and it was a fixer upper that required a lot of a sweat equity, so to speak.

So I bought it. it was what’s called a leasehold property, which is common here in Hawaii. So people were overlooking it and while it was a leasehold, the fee was actually for sale. So you could buy it. Outright and own the unit. So I was able to get it all in with the fee at about 300 little over 300,000.

And I put in about maybe 20 or $30,000 of work and materials. And that was my first place. And I lived there for about three years, maybe two or three years. And I had a roommate also because it was two bedrooms. So that helped me out a lot, as far as paying down. My monthly expenses. So how’d you get the dump for that?

Cause it was like, yeah. So I was able to save up enough for the down payment myself. But on the fee portion, I had, a loan from my parents that I’m actually still paying them back right now. So I borrowed about maybe close to a hundred thousand from them to purchase the fee on the unit. And eventually I was able to refinance the whole package together.

To get a fee simple loan on it. So yeah, my parents definitely helped me out with my first place with the cash. they own rental property themselves. They used to. Yeah. Yeah. And the one of the units on my sheet is really, I code with them. So that’s a rental unit that they own, and they actually bought it for me when I was in college with the intent that I would live there.

But I stayed up on the mainland for a little while and then they ended up renting it out to a family friend. yeah, it’s the one that’s like on the bottom, the last one there. Okay. Yeah. So I. Yeah, I don’t really have anything to do with it, honestly, but I put it on there because I was able to get a line of credit on it because I’m technically the owner on it, but yeah.

I mean that worked right. That got you started. we could have, they could have not done that. You probably just working on your ratchet Subaru WRX drinking beers in someone’s garage right now. Just go into your day job, right? it couldn’t, that could very well happen at that point.

Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. I, my parents definitely had a positive influence on labor. They’ve had rental units as far as long as I can remember, they had some, even off Island and out of state. So not anymore other than this one, but yeah. Yeah. that’s why we both went to the mid-back writer turns to cut in and have some money.
Not rich, but yeah. It was, I was fortunate enough just like you. I think my parents actually sold one of their houses, I think too, to put me to mid back in college, but I never really did that. though, they just did. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you and I both know that a lot. Yeah.

All of our classmates started like trust fund kids. And their parents did it incredibly the wrong way where they just paid for college. They, the kids didn’t do anything. And now we’re seeing them all like the grandparents, parents dying right now and giving their one to two to $3 million estate and then just buying a bigger house to live in.

What they did here is not to say there’s a lot of different ways to generate the second generation wealth. But this worked. So note that, some of the older listeners can, I think can, should think of that. what, looking back, would you do the same thing? you don’t have kids, but like that’s sparked it.
All right. Yeah. I think so. It was a good experience fixing all my first place. Some of it good. Some of them did that, but yeah, it was definitely a learning experience. Yeah, for sure. I think that’s the hard thing. A lot of people just can’t get that first 30 grand right. To get started. Yeah.

Yeah. so the next thing I look at here is after we look at like the net worth, I know where to start which side of the couch to start shooting. And then I break down the sort of the sources, which is you make a decent salary. You’re obviously not Like you said on the partner track, but Hey, that’s cool because your rental income is more than that, right?

You probably make, you probably make more money than your boss’s boss at this point. I don’t know about that patient. She’s a pretty, is a pretty successful dude. but yeah, I think I’m on the right track and I just, I need a while. I was hoping to get some guidance and maybe just if you were in my shoes or what would you do next steps wise?
career-wise, you’re already on the right track. you’re at this point, like when I got up to I’ll be on 11 rentals back in 2015. That’s like when I hit the hockey stick. And you’re right at that cusp. it took you what, 10, 12 years to get up to this point to build your passive cashflow up to about a few grand.
to double that it’s going to be like a quarter of that, That’s why I’m saying like, yeah, you’re just going to blow past your boss’s boss. Take home. Very soon. Yeah. I’d hope so. the tough thing is in Hawaii, I have a few condos here and the cashflow is really not that good. So I think long term, I’d like to sell them.

That was always the intent actually, but it just worked out where I kept having folks that wanted to stay in rent. So like I kept rolling. Yeah. And that’s the hard thing, right? Like you, I tell you one thing. But like until you go remote and you see it for yourself and get comfortable with it, it’s hard to get away from almost paid off.
Like these condos you have in Hawaii, you got a pretty good equity position and which is not good.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but they don’t really produce very much monthly cashflow, really nothing. I just look at them as pretty much breakeven. At least they’re paying off my monthly mortgage and maintenance, but. Yeah. you’re playing the appreciation game and up to this point, you’d been, you invested in the right decade and with the whole pandemic happening and the short-term sellers market, I think it’s a great time to start selling them off slowly, but we can get boring in that, but yeah, wrapping up that, and then I just peek over.

you’re pretty good. Your net cash flow, which is like your take your, how much money are you able to put to a new investments? Is over 60, 70 grand a year. That’s awesome, man. that’s, this is the most important number. I don’t really care how much money you make. It’s the kind of the net, right?
there’s so many guys and like the Bay area or bigger cities that make three times as you, but make, are able to see half this. Okay. Most people in our group, they’re able to save at least 30 grand a year. You’re in like the top 10% ish, but I know you. Yeah. And I didn’t really budget in for any major repairs or anything.

So that number can definitely go down pretty quickly. But I’d say in a good month, I guess that would be where we’re at. Yeah. I would say you. You’re already on the path and it depends like what your goals are. Like, if you just want to like stomp on the gas and get there really quick and love.

I know you probably live a little fruit, Billy. what car are you? Oh, I have a Ford truck. Yeah. Yeah. Go figure. look, if you want to go and spend like 10, 20 grand a year on a vacation or a nicer car. I wouldn’t have any Harper. It’s the guys who are able to save less than 30 grand a year.

That’d be need to type with bell a little bit and Schrader Tesla for that for Chuck or the, maybe not on the civic, but let me skid the Camry or something decent. But yeah, this, these are all, this is like your cash flow, right? This is your, where, what direction you’re heading. And I’m telling you, man, like you’re going to get there pretty damn soon, like three to five years to financial freedom.

So you can get there in two years or you can get there in four years, but like actually live a nicer life start living. that was. Like, there’s nothing sweeter than taking some of those cashflow and buying something nice for yourself. You never know what you’re going to die. Definitely. I think though, part of the reason why I listened to you and I started really getting into your content is I’d like to have the freedom or the option in the future to look elsewhere, for employment or maybe not work.

I probably would always work, but maybe just doing. Something else or just having the option. So I think that would be my main driving factor right now is just freedom. But yeah, on a scale of one to 10, how stressful your job? Yeah. It goes up and down and ebbs and flows, but I would say on average, it’s not overly stressful and I don’t not like what I do.

It’s not horrible. So it’s something that I could definitely keep on doing, but just having the option to maybe go on and follow something that I’d be more interested in or have more passion. I don’t know, maybe work for a nonprofit, even something with the mission really resonates with what I’d like to.

To see happen in the world. I don’t know. Maybe I’m speaking too crazy right now. it’s, I think it’s idea. And unfortunately, unless you’re like, you’re able to free your time up and get three to six months of twiddling your thumbs doing nothing. You don’t find that thing you’re talking about right now.

It’s just an ideal, but it’s not like a concept people see will take to get there. So what I’m probably hearing, I’m just assuming this, like you’d rather take the 10, 20% pay. Cut. For a little bit or chilled job. Yeah, I think so. Or maybe not even more chill, but just having the freedom to look for something that would be a little bit more of a passion project, so to speak versus like just clocking in and clocking out.

Yeah. Unfortunately in your career, even still you gotta go like full-time right. You got to stay full-time. Yeah. I was just going to say, I might even consider working at a job like this, but just not full-time. I think it’s possibly an option, but I don’t know. I haven’t really explored it because I don’t have the ability to really, yeah, who does, right?

it’s funny people who do this stuff and then they go have that conversation with their boss. It’s funny that they often get more pay and they get a few days. Taken off of the week. Nobody has everybody else lives by this paradigm where they’re like their employer has a by the balls and they have to keep them.

Working and coming in just like everybody else, but yeah, you’ll get there, Matt. What’s your like your living situation and you’re married. You got 50 kids. Just get some context. I have, I have a girlfriend, lead. We both live together. We actually bought, if you look on my sheet, I think it’s five under the real estate tab, the primary residence there, we just moved in earlier this year and we bought a place here.
So that’s like she and I are both 50% on that are our primary. And the, we bought a big house here in Hawaii and we’re able to rent out half of it or so, so that’s why there’s some income there, but that represents my 50%. house houses here, like pretty crazy, ridiculous, expensive.

So yeah, that’s actually a cute house, right? 700 grand in that kid. She’d possibly. Oh, no, that’s well, that’s my 50%. That’s my 50% of the, okay. Okay. So it’s a $1.4 million house. That makes more sense. Yeah, we, we paid like 1.2, 1.3 million for it, but yeah, luckily we can rent out a lot of it or a portion of it.

So it helps us quite a bit with our money. Otherwise, we’d be stuck with this big bill every month, but what did they do for work? she works for the government for the state. So she has a pretty stable job, not really high, super high earner, but yeah, she has a stable career, I would say. Ooh. I don’t think she likes her job very much right now, actually.

Perfect. Perfect. I know she makes less than you. So at some point you guys need to start doing the real estate professional status gig. Yeah. I heard you talk about that before and she can get her license and we can get some better deductions, right? Getting your real estate license and doing 1000 hours of real estate has nothing to do with real estate professional status.

it’s going to silver. Yeah. She just has to have active participation in your real estate portfolio. But we talked a lot about this in the mastermind where it’s a little bit of a gray area, which is why I don’t like to record this type of stuff, but it’s totally legit BAE. It needs to be like 700 fishing.

It doesn’t have to, he can’t have a full-time day job, which I’m sure the state will be cool with her going like part-time at some point. And she has 750 hours of active participation using your portfolio. So at this point you’ve already got a lot of voice stuff, but we’ll talk a little bit here. I’d probably want you to unload the Hawaii stuff because the rent to value ratio soccer, right?

Like I would say like maybe think about doing like a little thinky, Airbnb rental or something. An average change sheets for 750 hours a year. That can be an option or some of the higher net worth investors. They like to come on as a general partner in our deals. That can be another one, but yeah, a myriad of different ways.
of course. Talk to your CPA attorney, but yeah, I would say that’s in the cards for you guys, maybe in the next, not now, but. I would say three, four years from now and beyond, but this is all coming together, right? this kind of optimal, she makes probably way less money than you. She doesn’t like your job.

Cool. This is really hard for me. When you guys love your job and you make a lot of money and I’m like, God, dang it. it’s hard. That’s hard. It’s good. When people have a mismatch in salary. So you cool. clear path there. But it makes sense. Okay. yeah. That’d be perfect.

she wants to stay, she wants to be a stay at home mom slash wife eventually. So that’s your girl. Yeah. that’s good for you, man. unfortunately that Mary or like a rich doctor, sugar mama, but this is not a bad second option. Maybe that was the one that, yeah, I hear what you’re saying.

The one that got away right by the one. So look at if they quit or went part-time, you still probably be good, right? That cashflow. there’s, I would say as long as you keep that above 30 grand a year, you’re already on crew, you should already be at cruise control at this point.

It’s just a matter of just digging into these properties and. I don’t know if you saw my return on equity spreadsheet, folks can download that@simplepassivecashflow.com slash Roe, but it’s basically what I’m the exercise I’m going to do right here is just figure out what your debt equity is at.

So I’m going to take your fair market value minus your how much work you have on here. I’m a sum them up. Does this make sense? You’ve got like about 1.1 million in equity. Does that sound about right? Or maybe, yeah, that sounds probably about right. like I was saying that last property though.

I don’t, I sorta, I wasn’t even going to put it on there, but I just put it on there because I have a line of credit on it. So I dunno, maybe it’s, it would be more accurate. You’d just take that off. Okay. Okay. Yeah. at some point, yeah. At some point we play around with it. I don’t even know if I spelled that.

But, so this is really bad, man. Like your net worth is 1.2 and your dead equity is 1.1. That’s really bad if I was a doctor. And these are like your vitals, right? I would probably wonder while you’re still living. So in this sense, I would probably picture a really like my, like really cheap, wiser, who is house rich or EKI rich or super poor and just rise, like drives around in a POS.

And it’s super cheap. I dunno. That’s how you feel like, but that’s how, if I didn’t know you and I was just looking at this, that’s how I would think, and people. Maybe people don’t give people more context. People in Hawaii, this is very common, right? And people are very debt averse, and they’ll have $1.2 million homes that are paid off, but they don’t even have money to fix it down roof because they don’t have cash.
She’s a strange phenomenon. It’s very unfortunate. But yeah, I do feel like that sometimes. Like I just, I have a decent amount of assets, but it’s, I know I’m not really utilizing them utilizing the assets to their full potential, I don’t even know if that’s the right verbiage, but yeah, I get what you’re saying.

So that was one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you. Yeah. you can make up your own decision, but let’s just figure out which does sell first. So you can do it two ways with one, like how I outlined it here and just go after the biggest fish. Or you can go by percentage of equity, which one of these is making you the least amount of return based on equity or return on equity percentage.

So like you take this property, this condo, how much money you making per month on this one? What’s the rent. Yeah, I 25, 50 a month, but again, I counted as almost just net zero. Maybe I cashed a little positive, a small amount, but. Yeah, so that’s pretty common, a half a percent method evaluation in Hawaii with the big ass HOA and just sucks it dry.

So I would say probably be the first candidate to sell because of equity positioning or it’s one of the bigger fish plus it has the lowest amount of return on equity. you can probably, you should probably sit down and really watered down, but that’s what I would do both first after. And then probably this one, I, and I know this one has the highest amount, but like you said, your family part of it, right?

We don’t want to give mom and dad a heart attack. They’re old. Let’s get some, let’s get some proof of concept with these crazy ideas and filling your head with first, before we, we tell mom and dad. Maybe get married or something or have kids that are happy and then three candidates to that, but that’s a couple of years or something like that.

So I think the point money, especially for you, that someone super new at this stuff, like 200 grand deploying that in one year is going to be, I think that might be a little bit ambitious. So this is now I’m like starting to like Mark it off into a year. So like 2000 and. 20 2041, 2023. And you can make the diagram for this, for yourself later on, but I would invest maybe.

A hundred or 150. I don’t know. what do you want to do? Do you want to buy some turnkeys on the mainland or do you want to do like passive syndications? What do you want to do? I don’t know. I guess that what I was one of the questions that I had say you were. In my position, what would you be looking for and how would you want to deploy, say I was able to sell these places.

How would you want to deploy it? Would you try and look for syndications or multi-family or single-family home deals? That’s where I wasn’t too. Sure. Especially now the times are a little uncertain and shifting around everything is shifting around. So yeah, I was going to get your take since you’re pretty plugged in and tuned into this stuff.

I would just do also indications, especially if your network is over a million bucks. I think, what is seriously? What is like a hundred thousand dollars kinky property in Birmingham going to change your life other than just keep yet another headache, but it will. you already know how to be a landlord.

Yo, you already know how to dance. I, so I don’t think you would gain much in terms of experience being able, just buy like a turnkey or even you certainly shouldn’t do a Burr, That’s just for like broke people. We’re trying to, they need to take more risks and they need to go after business.

She’s thinking about, I was actually thinking about trying to do some out-of-state burgers after I listened to. I think one of the guys you had on your podcast was talking about managing burrs from auto state when I was like, Oh, that sounds interesting, but it always sounds interesting.

And then when they talk about it, they rave about all these returns, but here’s my thing, man. You’re fighting with one arm tied behind your back on somebody else’s home court. I wrote a big article on this, like why would not do like burgers, but like number one risk of embezzlement with contractors.

I comes from like construction management, right? So I’m the one who always works change orders with the contractor. I not pay these tasks, but dude, you’re, you’ve done this in the past. But most people they’re trying to play like. Owner and trying to do this, like it’s just outside your realm.

And you’re doing this remote me I’d much rather have you just flip a house in Hawaii, At least you’re you see this stuff as opposed to relying on a third party to do it. And it’s just not worth the risks. Yeah. Bezel man. Shit. Why I’m over large sums of money and you’re not able to verify the scope of work was completed and to what level of quality.

And everybody knows. You’re just some rich person from Hawaii, even though that’s not the case. You got to like a piece of junk Borg Ford, They don’t know that they, their ideas, like you’re just some like rich investor, polite drinking, pina coladas. Yeah. I just don’t think it’s worth it for people making over like 80 grand at their day job.
And especially having a net worth of over half a million bucks. But if you enjoy it. Yeah, man do it. But I think maybe a hobby, maybe I think it detracts, right? I think like the name of the game is networking and building relationships with higher net worth higher credit investors. That’s where you should be focusing your time and energy on.

Not to screw it around with some toolbox Tim out in Indianapolis or something like that. It’s no carry over. What are your thoughts on I have a line of credit on my place in Las Vegas. And I was thinking, instead of selling those two rentals I have in Nevada and in Texas, because they pretty much have been managed themselves.
they manage themselves, but there hasn’t been too many problems. There I’ve got pretty good tenants so far, not the wooden pretty good property managers. So I was thinking about maybe just pulling the money out of there and trying to do something with it. Instead of selling them off, that’s a good intermediary strategy, For an hour, To get you. We’re trying to get you proof of concept right before you go all in. So like when you have equity, if you have three options, you can sell the asset. Which is what I’m proposing. You can do a cash out, refinance get at it. But unfortunately you got to pay the lenders.

Love it, right? Because that’s how they make money. If you come to the origination fees or like you said, do a hilar, right? The problem with the hilar is that it’s, you’re not getting at the full, in this case, 194 grand probably wouldn’t get at half, but the half of it, you got a lot of money there.

Half of it. It’s enough to go into a couple of deals. It’s you proof of concept that way. you have so much equity here. I would say the HELOC is a great way to just test the waters and then eventually sell. But whatever you want to do, man, I think all those are all steps in the right direction.

is that what you’re probably going to do? He locked that thing and then play around with a hundred. Yeah. I already have a, I have a hilar on that property, and I, when I refinanced my first condo here, I paid off the loan on that house. So it’s, that’s why it’s free and clear right now.

So I was thinking, yeah, I was thinking I could take some money out that way. And just like you said, proof of concept and try it out and see how it goes. Yeah. however you want to do it either. This one or this one, getting a lock on both. Get it now. it’s just filling out the same paperwork, emails, just cut and paste the name and do it.
Get a geeky Lux on them. All. The locks don’t cost anything. And so what about as far as, what should I be looking for in say I do go into syndication. What should I be looking for? You think I see they have these ones that give you a debt position versus an equity position or some that are like value add plays.
And they’re trying to fix it up and refinance out or more of a, like a yield play. I saw some of those as well. what would you think would be the best that’s syndication as a very general term? You can syndicate anything. You can send the, get very like conservative stuff, like a debt position, or like value, add a light value, add yielding assets.

Or like a brewery, a restaurant like developments, like you can syndicate anything. It ultimately comes down to your risk tolerance. Like when I first started it, I was looking more for like late value, add more cashflow based type of deals, things that were cash flowing right away. And, or you start to collect checks and the second border, that’s what I thought was a prudent way to dip my toes into it.
And that’s what I learned. And I built my community around that, but I would say stick to like more of a debt position or pref equity position or more of a lighter, medium value add type of project where they’re, maybe putting in definitely less than $10,000 rehab, continuing every unit, but yet stay away from The developments and all that heavy stuff for now, I would say, especially, it’s baby steps, right?
I know you’ve been involved in a lot of these syndications and a bunch of folks that do this type of syndication deals. have you ever seen one that went wrong or went South and what happened? I’m in one of those, I had a bad partner and that’s pretty much the risk, right?

Like syndication deals. You’re going to always going to be better. If you invest with honest people that are competent and that’s the, to the GP kind of went astray on you. Yeah. Yeah. So then I had to involve my GP rights and I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole still fighting through it, but yeah, great example.

And that’s with uncertainty, right? You want to be investing with the pros, right? I would say this is probably the end of the road for most people. Who’ve made it as far as you, at least. That’s the way I saw it. I don’t think you can do this remotely. I don’t think you can. certainly you can’t run a syndication deal from Hawaii.
It ain’t going to happen. I have operational partners that are boots on the ground. And it has to be like your full-time day job, none of the site gig stuff, When you’re taking other people’s money, it’s gotta be full time and these guys can run it better than you. And I think what a lot of people don’t realize is if you’re working with the right people, they have much better deal flow.

They’re getting like the one out of a thousand deals because they’ve closed big deals on the past. And that’s just something that you don’t have access to, but it’s hard as an LP to figure out what’s what, because anybody can pay some VA 20 bucks to make a really nice, shiny PDF pitch deck.

Often there’s nothing in the pitch deck that tells you if it’s a great deal. So it ultimately comes down to your network. You need to build a network with other high paid professionals, people that do this stuff and kind of get referrals. And who are the right people to work with, Because you’re not shied away so far.

Yeah. Yeah. and this is why I’m like, don’t screw around with a Burr. That’s just a waste of time. Okay. Yeah. Going back to your point. I think that’s why I’ve strayed away is because I don’t really know exactly what I should be looking for in a syndication deal. So to speak. So that’s what I was trying to get your take.
And I did the same thing, right? Like I had 11 rental property and I knew about a performance in vacation, but what I was doing was working, I got in my net worth up to a substantial level by myself. And it was working, but I knew that it wasn’t going to be a long-term sustainable solution.

So I went and I eventually slowly went into it after I’ve built my network around it. And I was able to ask these guys, all right, are these deals actually really work in it, who to work with? So that was how I eventually I fell into this and I transitioned to bowl for, but that’s why it’s a reboot.

You’ve got to come into different circles and then you got to learn how to evaluate deals from more of a passive investor standpoint. But a lot of that is just can be like proxy by just. Building relationships with the right people. But I would say stay away from class C properties there.

They don’t really cash though, like how they do on paper or just stick to good yield based assets. And I think that this is where it’s a lot better than turnkeys cause turnkeys. Yeah. You’re not buying value. Add you’re not buying, you’re buying retail price. So if the market insurance on you or you’re gonna lose the value of your property, Maybe 10, 20%, which is fine because ultimately you’re just buying an income stream, but with a apartment deal that’s value add, it has real value add in under it’s in the right way.

In times of trouble. You’re often forced to appreciating that property. We haven’t units increasing NOI faster than the market can be tracked. So it’s the ideas like a turnkey you’re on by yourself, right? You’re in a little rowboat by yourself, but. In a syndication deal. You’re a passenger amongst a big priests battleship.
And that battleship has engine, which is in this metaphor, like the forced appreciation, couple of hundred to fight the tide, which is the market. It’s a good metaphor. Yeah. I had a lot of time to think about it. You want to join Noah’s arc? Who would you like to just be out there by herself? You got like ducks and events.
Monoceros to have every time. Okay. that’s what I think I’ve been with just shooting from the hip, on my own, trying to figure things out. I think there’s a lot of people just like in your same pedigree, where you in your twenties, you bought properties, you actually fixed it up yourself.

You save 10 years later, you have mass a pretty good at net worth. There’s a lot of people like that in Hawaii, everywhere. And. To me. I think all roads, the syndications, there’s no better way to scale up, build your wealth and especially with all the taxes, right? this is, this deal stuff is only a third of it, right?
Like in the mastermind, we like, it’s all about legacy creation. If net banking, if tax legal, like paying no taxes, like uncle Trump, right? It’s funny. People are talking all about that. Like he’s not paying in taxes. yeah. everybody does that. Biden does that too. Mick Romney did it.

Like we should be asking, how are these people doing it? I know how they do it. But we should be trying to implement their strategies. Instead of just saying that there are deed, right? I would say just to give you like a working blueprint care, maybe invest maybe a 20, 20, I would say invest like 50 grand and just so you can see like a Q1 come back March of 2021 and you can see, Oh shoot.
This is what that’s, what that damn Costech segment. No, I know. Understand why the rich do this. They’re getting the bonus depreciation. Now. I really love those house slippers because they pay all my taxes for all their active income taking all that risk. And the bird people.

And then I would say maybe get on like a routine where you go into a deal. I don’t know, every six months. So that’s like a hundred grand. And then at that point you should see these deals start to cash flow, Versus six months, it usually takes the deal to restabilize. And then maybe around late 20, 21, you should be able to realize, all right, where do I go for my next traunch of capital?

You’re still messing around with the hilar. So it was awesome. Like a law. This is first of all, You don’t have to sell anything. You don’t have to pay a mortgage broker to originate them a new loan and pay feeds. But eventually now you start to go pick her, You a hundred. And then you do that for a couple years.

Then you’ve deployed all this money, right? If I just sum this up, that’s 750,000 bucks. And then at that point, I would say around 20, 24, you might have an instance, we’re selling. deal in Atlanta that we did two and a half years ago. And we’re two and a half exiting people’s money. that’s, it’s phenomenal.

it’s not typical. But I would say if you go into four or five deals by year 20, 24, it won’t be that five-year period where we it was projected to sell. But I would say pretty confident. You’d see at least one like refinance. And then at that point it’s Oh boy, like this stuff works.

And that’s when you go to mom and dad and say, Hey, I’d like to buy you out for this thing. And then look at like, all this deployed capital. You’re not making any cashflow here. You have $750,000 on 0.2%. Well done. Let me go just 8% a year. That’s 60 grand. Tax-free right, because you’re going to have so much passive losses.
You’re not going to know what to do at that. it’ll sit this stuff. I’ll certainly be tax-free in the first three years, every year, the cashflow. And this is not what you’re not seeing now. You’re not seeing this additional sum come to your bottom line here. And if I just plugged that in year, cause right now this stuff just levels off.
You’re making 3000 a month. But if I just increased it by three valves and. see what that does now you’re making an extra 40 grand a year to put some more investments, right? this is a good problem that happened. Like it’s like eating Skittles on the rainfall. I can’t stop eating Skittles.

There’s so much Skittles because once I put more Skittles up there, it comes in my mouth. Like one of those unicorn rainbows, right? This is where it starts as the most important, all this stuff will just happen. That’d be good. I can get some losses and enroll them if ever sell those. Let’s talk about that.

When I sold my seven rentals in 2018, Ida $200,000 capital gain. And because I went into four, I think four deals at that point I had over three, I think at $300,000 of capital gain. So I bought the 300,000 or 200,000 other passive losses offset the capital gain. And this is why 10 30 ones are obsolete at this point, as long as bonus depreciation is in play.

So let’s just say you sell. You sell this one, right? Your cost basis was two 50 and you sell it for that much. I would say you’re actually, it’s the same thing as me, right? $200,000 capital gain plus depreciation recapture 200 grand. That’s not about right. So you’re, you probably have a lot of passive losses built up right now.
I’m guessing you might have 50 grand. I’m just guessing, but when you go into these deals, He put in 150,000 bucks, you probably will get maybe a hundred grand of passive losses from this. Of course, you’ll see this firsthand, right? don’t listen to me. It’s see it for yourself on the Caitlin, right?

With this first 2020 K one, which you’ll see in 2021 March. So you’ll have a lot, 150, a hundred thousand dollars of passive losses. Plus you have, like I said, you probably have $50,000 of passive losses now. So $150,000 passive losses. And that is what offsets this sale. But if you’re smart, you do it.

You sell the asset probably in 2023. When you have, when you’ve deployed this 200 grand and you’ve gotten in another hundred grand, a passive losses from that. So total you’ll have $250,000 of passive losses to offset this $200,000 gain. And you still have passive losses, the despair that may make sense.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Why would anybody want to flip houses, right? Yeah. How the wealthy deer, I don’t know what I was thinking of doing, but I just wanted to get some. Confirmation. yeah. Yeah. that’s hard, right? who the heck does this, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s hard. Other than reading, like blog posts or watching your videos since like you I was still felt like I was piecing it together myself, so yeah.

I’m, this is the public service announcement. Like I am not a CPA. I’m not giving you tax illegal advice, but. I think I, Michael, is to empower you guys with a working knowledge of this. So you can have the right information to go have an educated discussion with your CPA. Be tax guy. Because you’re the one who should be driving the ship.

Most CPAs and tax guys are lazy and they don’t know what they’re doing. That’s why they have a day job. Any last questions, maybe some specifics on what, as far as a syndication deal, I should look for any regions maybe that you think are worth looking into, or I don’t know, maybe even diving down into some of the.
Yield percentages are, what should I be looking for? I, this is where you just talked to you build up a network and you ask people, what are you investing in? Why? What is your risk tolerance? if you asked me, I like stabilized deals from the get-go, where it’s already cash flowing, and there is a proven concept for some value add where you just do simple things and you change out the flooring and new appliances.
You’re not putting any more than like $6,000 to rehab into a unit like value add. And if you can lock it up for like under 3% debt, I think that’s a no brainer in secondary markets, tertiary markets in both population areas and in red States. So that’s what I do. If that doesn’t make sense to you, but we’ll go find something else.
But I think that’s. Again, it comes down to your network. Your network is your network. Everybody has a different investment philosophy, too. But to me, for the greatest amount of success, with the least amount of risk, I don’t think that there’s anything better than that kind of strategy or risk return spectrum that you staying in that middle America, where the rents are 700 to a thousand bucks a month.
The pandemic it’s pandemic proof it’s been proven. Okay. So stay away from C-Class jumping into a good cash flowing syndication with some trusted partners. Right? Sound advice. Sounds good. It’s all right. It’s all simple. But it’s the hard part is connecting with the right people, right? Because they’re not at the local RIA.
They’re not at. the free websites, right? Just finding the guys who are just here, that real estate is a great way to make some money, to get on broke or get out of debt. Okay. And maybe you could speak a little bit more by your mastermind group. how exactly does it work? So my group is all about, we split the group up.
I have a incubator group for like people just trying to get their first rental property. That’s probably not for you. But that allowed me to make the mastermind group or for accredited investors. But I do like a mastermind in January. If like people want to check out the last name and go to simple passive cashflow.com/ and check out what we did there last time with great opportunity to meet past investors, accredited investors and.

Drink beers, go hiking, build a real relationship. That’s the key here. I’m thinking about doing, I gotta do some meditation on a plane here shortly. I think I might do the thing virtual this year. I was in another mastermind and we did it virtually. And then the organizer, there was a lot of planning involved, but they hadn’t been, we used the breakout rooms very creatively in a very different formats.
So I think that might put this thing together for a Chile. And I think that’s, you’re not gonna there. Ain’t going to be some that comes close, man. You don’t want to sound off over profit, but I’m super confident that this is what I would want it right when I was starting out. Unfortunately I had to spend almost 50, a hundred grand to get into groups, myself and do a lot of travel.

But, we do things for our credit investors here in Hawaii when people are, there’s no pandemic, but I’ll let you. Okay. That at least you can actually see cause. I think that’s the trouble, right? if you’ve never been in, you never been around. Yeah. More than two accredited investors. You don’t understand what the value is there.
And that’s why I think why I want to do that for actuals networking. I’ll be at like a two day event, you get it. And you’re like, there’s no going back to rubbing shoulders with not a credit investors anymore at that point. Yeah. I think that would be super valuable. And like you’re saying, just to hear what they’re doing and where they’re investing and how they’re investing.

I think it’d be really, yeah. Cause there’s discussions. Turn more into like, all right, yeah, this is what everybody is just doing. Check. I answered that question, but now you can build relationships to have discussions on Oh, you’re 20, 23. When this, when you go all in, right? that’s where your life starts to open up.

Maybe you, you already got a big house, but maybe that’s when you like you quit your date or you have your spouse quit your day job at an old car. Yeah. Okay. But that, those are like those higher level decisions. And then you wonder if you want to send your kid to private school. It’s the first world problems. Sounds good. Lang yeah. Anything else? ELLs? I think, yeah. I’m just leading you to water, right? Like it’s the people I know, like I think that’s pretty much it. I think it’s been really helpful. Like I said, just talking through this. Yeah. Like I say, I’m pretty impressed.
Most people are H with good paying jobs. They’re lucky if their net worth is half a million bucks, if they invested in that garbage stock market 401k stuff. Good job, man. thank you. High five. Yeah, this is a clear indication of how real estate works right here, but you can do a lot better.

And now I would say you got to focus on most credit investors. The goal is to get to four and a half million. That’s the real goal. That’s like a seat wealth right there. Cause you can have two, you can have two or three bonehead offsprings, send them the mid pack, have them do whatever. And it’s really hard for them to squirrel what you built.

Yeah. So gotta make sure they on the golf team though, So that’s where the apparently that’s where we met. All right. Cool man. Cool. If you guys like this and you guys want to do one of these two, let me knowLane@simplepassivecashflow.com. Join the, clubs, simple, passive cashflow.com/club, and yeah, be on the lookout for the next mastermind, whether it’s in person or virtual, a simple passive cashflow.com/week three was last year’s event.

You can check out the video there. And I’ll see you guys next time. Bye
website offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes. Every investor situation is unique. Always seek the services of licensed third party appraisers inspectors to verify the value and condition of any property you intend to purchase. Use the services of professional title and escrow companies and licensed tax investment and or legal advisor before relying on any information contained here.

How to Get Into the GP With No Money Down

https://youtu.be/a6YimSdAVu4

0:15  

So the question often comes up, how do I become part of the general partnership and get a little bit more bang for my buck, one of those ways is becoming what’s called a key principle or loan guarantor for the team. So what this is here for as we go out and get one of these big loans for these Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, or any other loan, we need to have a partnership team or keep principle slash loan guarantor roster of individuals whose network gets us over the hump greater than or equal to the loan. So for example, for going after a $20 million building, probably going to need a several guys or one guy who has $20 million net worth to be able to sign a debt. So in order for us to qualify, or in order for your qualified typically, that means, you know, you’ve got a million dollar net worth or above, I mean, most guys in our sphere about a one to $2 million range. So guys, unfortunately, those guys are kind of a diamond doesn’t just one of the guys, it’s the same. But if you know, if you’re above $3 million dollars or more, you’re actually very valuable. And you can definitely get compensated for sending off a debt on one of these deals, it has nothing to do with bringing in any money involved. So what a lot of these guys will do these high net worth investors, they’ll sign on debt, and I get a little piece of the deal just for doing so there is obviously risk involved, right. But I think there’s a difference between non recourse and recourse that and before you start doing this, you know, I would say you got to really strongly feel confident in you’re working with defeat, I wouldn’t be doing it on your first board round with somebody doesn’t matter how much they’re paying you. Because essentially, in a way, you’re putting all your family network on the line. And you can encumber your debt several several times. So I’ve signed on, I don’t even know how many deals at this point, also with non recourse debt, but it’s crazy to me how you could sign on multiple walls. But then again, you know, a lot of these are asset backed deals. And as real estate bows, the value is there built into the asset with some common questions that come up are how does this work? How does this book my return? Well, it’s not really bumping your return, you’re just kind of picking up some general partnership shares overall shares in the process. So there’s always a set aside a certain amount for people who do this type of stuff. And talking back about the non recourse components, you got to remember that even if a deal is non recourse, there’s usually a bad actor clause involved with the bad boy carve out where if somebody in the general partnership does anything fraudulent steals money and vessels that the agency lender can avoid that non recourse component and come back for everybody for the debt. At that point, I’m just speculating, you know, I think they’re gonna kind of come after the people with the biggest wallet folks. And then it becomes definitely an internal litigation issue, but hopefully it never goes that far. And you know, another way that people will get into deals with Latino money as a general partnership is for putting up the hard money on these deals. So certain markets such as Dallas are super competitive and to be considered serious and for them to even look at your offer, they have to put in 100 or $200,000 of hard money and for a lot of new sponsors, they may not even have that money in their pocket. And this is why I like working with people who are at least a million dollar net worth and above the fray Why’d I shy away from investing with house flippers because a lot of those guys are under half a million billion dollars unless they’ve been doing it for several years. I just don’t want to get screwed over by guys who don’t have a net worth to cover it personally and this is one of my criteria when investing personally but I digress there so what you could do is you could come in and put up the hard money for somebody who doesn’t have it and negotiate some percentage of the general partnership for doing so there it is long as the deal closes you should be able to get your hard money back and in return you get shares of the deal but I don’t know I feel uncomfortable with this. I think it’s a lot of money I don’t know if it’s quite worth it. I’ve seen deals go through due diligence and for some reason it falls out I also see a lot of deals that get shoved through because the operator doesn’t want to lose their hard money or they don’t want to pay off their hard money lender and not because they didn’t close the deal. That can always be a little shady too but are they for me I sign on the debt on loans I think that is pretty fair in terms of what you’re compensated with and you know you should like the deal you should trust the people you’re working with. The same goes for any work with people you know, like or trusts to begin with, and yeah can be a great way if you’re higher than a few billion dollars net worth to get a little bang for your buck but if you if you guys have any more of these questions, I would check it out at simplepassivecashflow.com/kp or go to simplepassivecashflow.com/syndication for the complete syndication guide there and I am coming up with the ecourse I’m actually working on this month as I’m wrapping up wrapping up the home arrest here why it’d helped me get stuff done without a lot of other distractions. So be on the lookout for that and we’ll catch you guys next time.

 

5:07  

This website offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes every investor situation is unique always seek the services of licensed third party appraisers inspectors to verify the value and condition of any property you intend to purchase. Use the services of professional title and escrow companies and licensed tax investment and or legal advisor before relying on any information contained herein information is not guaranteed as an every investment there is risk. The content found here is just my opinion and things change and I reserve the right to change my mind. Above all else, do your own analysis and think for yourself because in the end, you’re the only person who is going to look out for your best interests.

 

How to Best Utilize Passive Losses w/ Brandon Hall

https://youtu.be/umCsNG8sLNc

0:00
The passive loss will be suspended in period four because I cannot use it I don’t have I’m not a real estate professional, I’m not defending anything, so I can’t use that passive loss.

0:13
Anyone they even try to rent them out.

0:21
Hey, simple passive cash flow listeners. Today we have Brandon Hall, a CPA, we are going to be talking about some of the very commonly used tactics that we talked about almost every other week in the mastermind, you guys can learn more about that. It’s simple passive cash flow, calm slash journey. We’ll see accredited investors in there. We’re talking about how we’re going to customize what we’re going to talk about generally today. But yeah, thanks for jumping on Brandon, these questions always come up. So it’s always great to get a real CPA to kind of break it down for us.

0:53
Yeah, happy to be here and happy to help.

0:55
So let’s kind of start start from the top right, like syndication investors get passive losses, maybe you can kind of break that down, and then we can kind of get into Well, how do we use those? Sure,

1:07
sure. So when you invest in a syndication as a limited partner, the losses coming back are definitely going to be considered passive. And those passive losses can only offset passive income from your other passive activities. So I could have like a syndication that is producing positive net income, and that’s passive income. And then I could have another syndication that I’ve just invested in, that’s going to push back at the last from like a cost of creation study, I can use the losses from syndication beams offset the income from syndication a, so you can cancel them out. But if I have net losses, even after I do, even after I offset all my income, by net losses, they are net passive losses, and they get suspended and carry forward into future years until it can generate passive income, or until I sell a syndication investment adding game. So we don’t lose the suspended losses, they just sit on our books to hang out until we can generate income to tap into them at some future point.

2:05
And one of the main reasons why I invest in syndications these days, instead of your little one off single family home is single family homes, you can deduct it over what 27 years or so which is very lame, it’s gonna take forever to get that but with those with when you do a cost segregation, which I typically pay maybe five grand to do one of those, I can extract a third of all the depreciation in the first year distribute that to all passive investors. And I don’t know what you’re seeing Brandon, but like, typically, on an investor load where they’re using pretty healthy leverage 70 to 80% loan the value, they put in 100 grand they’re getting anywhere from 50 grand to over 100 grand a passive losses to the first year. But what do you kind of seen as you guys put together all these k ones?

2:54
Yeah, yeah, I think we pegged somebody with somebody my firm was tracking, I believe the average was around 90% of whatever dollar you invest is going to come back as a passive loss across all syndicates investments that are out there. So that includes the 50s. That also includes hundreds.

3:11
Yeah, something I’ve been seeing these last few months. And if you’ve been seeing deals with like COVID reserves, I don’t know if that’s the right term, but you’ve got to stick three to six months of reserves in the bank can be a substantial amount of money, but it’s definitely been diluting the cost segregation a little bit, maybe bringing it down. 10%. But still pretty good. I mean, can’t complain. Yeah,

3:32
yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, we’ve seen I think gold reserves smart. Just never know what’s going to happen over the coming years. But yeah,

3:41
yes. And what’s a newer thing too, yet, you’re seeing a lot of these deals that people are using this different class of investors private equity, what it’s called, it’s kind of a fixed rate of return. They get paid first, but they don’t get any upside. But the one cool thing is they still are considered equity investors and therefore get a piece of the losses too. Yep. Yep. The nice thing about LLC syndicates is that you can structure them really hard you like losing all sorts of interesting structures. I mean, the typical structure is some sort of 2080 3070 4060 split between the GP and LP pref on there. But we’ve seen special allocations of depreciation and all sorts of fun stuff. Well, so investor, you know, puts in 100 grand and maybe gets 50 or $70,000 of his passive losses. Maybe take us through how to use that, right?

4:34
Yeah. So if I invest in syndication, and I receive a passive loss of Indian mount, the question is, can I use the passive loss and let’s assume that I don’t have any other passive income. I don’t have any other passive activities, that passive loss will be suspended in period four, because I cannot use it. I don’t have I’m not a real estate professional. I’m not materially defending anything, so I can’t use that passive loss. But on the flip side, let’s say that I’m built out my own real estate portfolio, so I have five duplexes, and I self manage those five duplexes. And let’s assume that on those five duplexes I, I’ve materially participate and I qualify as a real estate professional. So those five duplexes are non passive activities. When I then go and make a syndication investment, I can make an election to aggregate all of my rental activities into one activity for the purpose of this section 469 tests. So what that means is, if I put $50,000 into syndication, when I’ve already qualified as a real estate professional, and I already materially participate on my own portfolio, I can aggregate in the syndication investment into my overall portfolio. And then I can take a loss, a non passive loss from that syndication investment. If I don’t make that aggregation election, what happens is that syndication investment will still be considered passive. So even if I’m a real estate professional, and even if I materially participate in my, my own portfolio, if I don’t make that aggregation election, I still might not be able to use those losses. So by making the aggregation larger, what I’m, what I’m effectively doing is I’m re characterizing that loss from passive to non passive, and then I can take that loss. So what we’ll see a lot of our clients do is build out their own real estate portfolio, they’ll self manage, it will do all the repairs, or coordinate with all the tenants themselves. It doesn’t have to be anything, it doesn’t have to be a substantial portfolio, but one that will drive you to the 750 hour test in more than half your time test to qualify as real estate professional. And through that they’re also materially participant, so they have that non passive portfolio, and then they’ll go and place syndication investments to boost their current year losses.

6:46
And that’s something that’s common that CPAs will not get on board with the aggregation or that grouping.

6:53
Oh, no

6:54
aspect right there. That’s probably why you need a new CPA, listen to this right now, and need to look at you cross side, I just all I say is like, well, that’s why they have a day job, right?

7:08
So but if you if it’s a good point, and if your CPA ever challenges you on that, then I would ask them to go fill out form 8582. That’s where all these losses get aggregated at the end of the day. And see what they say that

7:23
a good point. I mean, we talk a lot about this stuff on these podcasts or in these groups. And we’re just giving you the ideas and the ammo. I mean, it’s, I always tell my folks in my mastermind, like, Look, you guys are empowered with this information. Your CPA to me isn’t really a tax planner. I mean, they’re not planning for you that they’re there to do your paperwork. If you get a good one. Yeah, maybe they can, but they don’t know what deals are going into. They don’t know how much passive losses they’re going to be. They don’t know what the time horizon or the risk reward profile of those deals are. It’s unfair for them to be able to tax plan out in the head, this is your job. This is your number one costs him like a to do it yourself. But these are kind of the building blocks of starting to do it by yourself and kind of steer the ship on your own. But you kind of are talking about a little bit so people ask a high paid professional making over 200 $300,000 a year, how come I can’t get these passive losses are pals for short and offset my active that’d be to salary that I chose supposed to eat them down? What’s the deal, man?

8:26
Yeah, well, the most simple way to explain it is that your W two business income, capital gains, stock sales, interest, dividend income, all of that income is considered non passive. So if I go out and create a passive loss, I can’t net my passive losses against my non passive losses. So my goal then should be to re characterize my passive losses as non passive. And there’s quite a number of ways that you can go about that one of which I just described is especially affecting those that are investing in syndications. But that needs to be the goal at the end of the day is how do I re characterize my passive losses as non passive if I’m trying to offset my other non passive income?

9:07
And one of the big strategies that we like to use, if that’s possible, is the real estate professional status that any breakdown that I don’t know what we’d call it, but that it’s like a two part test, right? there’s kind of two things that they need to qualify for.

9:22
Yes, yeah, two steps toward tests. And then the third hurdle that you have to get over. So the first two tests, you have to spend 750 personal service hours in the Real Property trader business in which you materially participate, personal service hours, real property, trader business, material participation, 750 hours, the second,

9:43
let’s let’s break that one down real quick. So that means being an LP and five syndication deals does not work, because you’re not you’re not a managing member. But what are a couple of examples that you see, like you mentioned, a few rental properties is that work?

10:00
It will. So let’s talk about that syndication investment. So it’s 750 personal service hours a real property trader business in which you materially participate. Now the syndication is going to qualify as a real property trader business, but you your personal service hours, if you think about the litmus test of a personal service, our what that really means is or the litmus test for it is, if I did not log the time that I’m logging, or if I did not spend the time that I’m spending on this activity, the activity would fail the operation, the day to day operations would cease. If you’re a limited partner, investors in your personal service hours are not going to affect the underlying deal. So therefore, we’re automatically out. But then we’re also not materially participating as a limited partner, there’s just no way that we can. So whenever we invest in limited partnership stakes, or syndications, as a limited partner, we’re not able to hit personal service hours for material patients. So we’re trying to hit 750 personal service hours, and real arbitrators in which we materially participate. We’re already out because none of the hours that we log against that activity will actually count towards that 750 hour test.

11:09
And another thing that we will just leave as a teaser for now is becoming us all part of that general partnership and being an active participation in there get we can we’ll talk about that more next week when you come in, join us on the mastermind call. But that’s more of an inner circle type of activity. But what about for moving on to rental properties? Somebody just owns a few of them?

11:29
Yeah, well, so that second test that second statutory test for real estate profession, statuses spending more than half your time in real estate than you do anywhere else, which could, we will kick out the W two people and business people to be working part time or not at all, in order to hit that second test. So assuming that you can hit both of those tests, 750 hours, and more than half the time, the next hurdle is to materially participate in my rental portfolio. And the the issue that we run into or is typically, it’s typically not gonna be an issue for landlords if you if landlording is your only real estate activity, and whether your landlord in large projects or single family homes, if that’s your only activity, you typically don’t have to worry about the material visitation tests, because you’re going to hit them to visitation on your way to 750 hours. But if you are a real estate agent, then you’re not materially participating in your rental portfolio, but you at the same time can still be a real estate professional because I as a real estate agent could spend 1500 hours brokering deals all day long. Well, that’s a real property, trader business. They are personal service hours, and I materially participate. So I meet test one 750 hours. And by spending 1500 hours during the year, that indicates that it’s my full time job. So I also meet test too. So I’m a real estate professional as a real estate agent. But what if I forget to also material materially participate in my rental portfolio, then my rental losses are still passive. So what we’d like to see is pretty significant participation by either you or your spouse in the rental portfolio itself, in order to hit those material participation pass, or you do the landlording full time, that’s all you do.

13:16
And that was that’s a big misnomer, right? Because people think, oh, I’ll just have my spouse get a real estate license. So then just sell one house a year or something like that. It does not gonna work. Not gonna work. Yeah. Yeah. Another other thoughts are that I think for more of a credit investors listen to his podcasts. It’s like, Is it worth it to buy three crappy houses and be the landlord and get real professional status? Well, in my opinion, unless your AGI is over 300,000, in probably a year, you’re not paying too much taxes? Let’s be honest, it may not be worth it.

13:50
Oh, we have a progressive system. Right. So I think 300 K, I think the 24% tax bracket goes up to $317,000. If you’re married filing joint, so only after 317. Are you taxed at what’s the next 130 2%? So if you’re in like 30 to 3537. Okay, yeah, we want to get creative here and try to mitigate but but it’s also similar conversation to what I’ve been had with a lot of clients and cares Act came out. Everybody wants these big net operating losses. And so they’re like, how much real estate Should I buy to create a non passive loss that wipes out all of my income and increase the net net operating loss that I can then carry back five years? Because that sounds cool. And like, Well, sure, but 100 and whatever $15,000 of this real estate loss that you have is only going to save you 10 to 12% per dollar. So to what extent do we want to create this loss, like we want to maximize the savings, so we might not want to create a huge loss in one year, we might want to space it out. So we stay in that 35 37% range? Yeah,

14:57
just to kind of highlight that for people. If you’re making over $300,000 a year real estate professional status is definitely something you should be looking at. I mean, there’s wonderful things that can come with this, right? Yeah, one spouse being a lot of money, one that isn’t perfect, that person can stay at home, take care of the family more. And actually, at the end of the day, the net on the financial statement is better. Because you’re enacting this strategy. And if you’re I would say, if you’re under 100, maybe even $200,000 of AGI this stuff isn’t probably for you, which is why this is accredited investor mastermind Today the topic. But I think for the lower net worth, guys, the lower income guys, it’s Can you still take 25 grand of passive losses off of like, if you’re making under 100? Was 100 150, or something like that? Yeah, we get gifts, some of the lower the lower income guy something.

15:47
Yeah.

15:49
Yeah. And I think that if you’re in the 22, to 24%, tax bracket, these these losses are still beneficial to a degree in for married filing joint, you drop into the 12% tax bracket, you earn less than $80,200. So that’s that 22% threshold. And 24%, I said was 115. But that’s actually 171. So between 80,000 and $171,000, by married filing joint, I’m getting taxed at 22% after 171 K, now I’m being taxed 24%. So if you’re in that threshold, I still think that it’s potentially applicable. But to answer your question, specifically, if you’re earning less than $100,000, you have what they call a $25,000 passive loss allowance that you can claim, you have to be actively participating, you also have to own 10% of the activity. active participation just means management decisions are much lower bar than real estate professional status than material participation, you have to worry about all that, if you’re earning less than 100, you get a full $25,000 passive loss allowance. As you scale up to 150 k in earnings, that $25,000 passable, passive loss allowance phases out, it phases out $1 for every $2 above 100 K. So if I earn $110,000, I phased out $5,000 of the passive loss allowance and half of whatever my income is above 100, is how you calculate that. And so there’s some strategies here, the first strategy is to manage my income. If I’m in that, in that area, how do that I can max out my 401k contributions, we’ve had people at 150 K, contribute the full 401k contributions of 19,000. And whatever that is, in 2020, make that full contribution, drop your income, your modified adjusted gross income down to 141. And now you’ve just unlocked 90 $500 of that passive loss allowance that you can then claim. And that 90 $500 passive loss allowance then yields another $2,000, assuming taxing for you. So all of a sudden, my $19,000 contribution, my 401k saves me a lot more money than it would otherwise because it unlocks some of this passive loss allowance that I’m able to claim. So if you’re less than 100 K, you get a $25,000 passive loss allowance. If you’re more than 100 K, that starts phasing out. And once you reach $150,000, you’re 25,000 passive loss allowance has been paid down to zero dollars.

18:18
And I think like most I don’t know about most, but a lot of CPAs, especially the more conservative ones will definitely say yeah, you’re not active manager, they’ll tonight kind of fight you on that claim. So you as an investor need to kind of know what the rules are to get what you’re looking for. Because if not, they’re not going to check the box for you. And this topic comes up a lot, right? Like their CPA says, Well, are you actively participating? And they’re like, well, you have a property manager. So they say you’re not?

18:46
Hmm, yeah, you can be actively participating with a property manager, you might not be materially participating if you have a property manager. But those are two separate tests.

18:56
Right? material participating, like you said, is for real estate professional status, but for what we’re talking about right here is just active participating. And you’re you’re making the shots, somebody else is doing your dirty work, but you’re calling the shots.

19:07
Exactly.

19:09
And but like just using an example, this is kind of tax time right now, this is tax time for everybody who is more of a sophisticated investor, that actually files in October, like once you get your return back, this is the stuff you should be checking, right that they they maximize that $25,000 if you have the passive losses, if you’re under that threshold, so this is where you would have to kind of keep that in check and kind of drive the ship. But I’m sure that it just does it does it automatically.

19:37
We trained our staff and try to do that automatically. We do make mistakes. I think everybody makes mistakes, especially when you’re trying to crank through tax returns leading up to the deadline but for the most part, we get it right we ask you questions.

19:50
Yeah. And I know you guys you kind of share my the same sentiment as me is like you’d like to work with good clients, right that know this stuff as opposed to walking in a meeting with a client and then They are asking you why blue ocean questions? What should I do Brandon, those, those are bad clients to work with. Like, you want them to kind of know this stuff. And that kind of you can work collaboratively with them and see what you guys can create.

20:14
Yeah, absolutely well, and that’s kind of my my new mission is to educate investors across the country and empower them to have better conversations with their own advisors. So we’ve been like focused on a lot of educational content recently, to help facilitate that it’s been going pretty well.

20:31
So just to kind of wrap things up, things that you’re seeing in the the stimulus plan, I think we’re recording this in October before the election. But what do you what are you kind of excited that might happen to be on the lookout for Trump’s taxes?

20:48
So the new stimulus plan, not a whole lot in there for real estate investors or the real estate investors should be aware from a tax perspective, obviously, they have all the eviction moratoriums, and definitely get up to speed on. But going forward, right now we have this big payroll tax deferral that nobody’s using, that I’m aware of. If the republicans win in November, the thought is that they will make that that payroll tax deferral permanent next year, that’s the thought that’s a that is a prediction, I can’t confirm that that will or will not happen. But that is something that they have promised, if they win. On the flip side, if the democratic party wins in November, then we’re going to, we will most likely see a lot of changes related to the tax code, we’ll probably see some 2017 tax cuts and jobs act provisions rolled back, we might see the elimination of the step of basis rules, whenever you pass away and you pass real estate on to heirs. They get to inherit the property at the fair market value, they can start depreciation all over that wipe out all the gains all the depreciation recapture. So that could potentially go away. And then 1031 exchanges are being challenged again, but I don’t think that I would expect in 31 exchanges to stay within the code and not actually be pushed out.

22:12
Yeah, I’m a big advocate for like, I don’t really care about the 1031 exchange let them have it. I mean, with bonus depreciation, that’s what I really care about. Right now the sunset it starts at what 2022 or something like that starts to step down. And phase out. You think that’s going to be going away or extending gym bonus depreciation? Yeah, with the heavy with the cost segregation to bonus depreciation.

22:37
Yes, bonus depreciation is going to start being phased out in 2022 or in 2023, it drops to 80% and then the next year 60 then 40, then 20 and zero so I would expect at some point Congress to reconvene on that and try to figure out if they want to keep it or not bonus appreciate has been around for a while whenever it sunsets it gets extended we might see similar treatment again

23:03
Yeah, and when you seen Democratic or Republican Party you’re meeting the senate right so that people okay, clear. Yeah, presidential just a figurehead. Yeah, but yeah, I want you to give her contact information folks get a hold of you and yeah, thanks for coming on.

23:18
You had a problem you can contact me at www.therealestateCPA.com we’ve got a lot of educational content on there, that real estate professional status, we have a 12,000 word guide on exactly how it works for with Internal Revenue Code citations and Tax Court cases that we’re not seeing you. There’s a lot of bad content out there on real estate professional status. So we decided to set the record straight so check that out. That’s all on our website. Again, that’s www.theRealEstateCPA.com

23:48
and I’ll put on all these resources including this video a bit simplepassivecashflow.com/tax, that’s slash tax. And if you guys want to join our mastermind, check it out. It’s simplepassivecashflow.com/journey. Brandon’s gonna be in there I think next week Monday answering all my more devious questions on tax and different ideas I have that we kind of talked about in our little cave works ourselves. So Alright guys, we’ll talk to you guys later right this website offers very general information concerning real estate for investment purposes every investor situation is unique always seek the services of licensed third party appraisers inspectors to verify the value and condition of any property you intend to purchase. Use the services of professional title and escrow companies and licensed tax investment and or legal advisor before relying on any information contained herein information is not guaranteed as an every investment there is risk. The content found here is just my opinion and things change and I reserve the right to change my mind. Above all else, do your own analysis and think for yourself because in the end, you’re the only person who is going to look out for your best interests.